2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[freedom]

Happy new years!

 

[WeAAsles]

I'll be toasting a nice pint of Guinness for ALL of us tonight.

 

[BLUTO]

HAPY NEW
YER 2 ALL>
CEPT DOOSH
N NIELSON!
 
WAYNE

 

[ograc]

Cargo doesn't really get on here and talk about BS. If you want cargo back on. Let's get back to getting a better JCBA for the members. Then he will show.

 
Happy New Year to all! Hopefully 2015 will be safe and prosperous for everyone. Other personal obligations have kept me a little busy the past 6 weeks. I have continued to monitor the discussion though. Our solidarity will again be tested in the coming year. The airing of different opinions and perspectives on this forum is productive. As long as we respect each others opinions and perspective it leads to a more informed and unified group. I believe it is in everyone's best interest that we stand united behind our JCBA Negotiating Committee as we approach the upcoming negotiations. It's time to move forward together!
 

 

[AANOTOK]

 
Happy New Year to all! Hopefully 2015 will be safe and prosperous for everyone. Other personal obligations have kept me a little busy the past 6 weeks. I have continued to monitor the discussion though. Our solidarity will again be tested in the coming year. The airing of different opinions and perspectives on this forum is productive. As long as we respect each others opinions and perspective it leads to a more informed and unified group. I believe it is in everyone's best interest that we stand united behind our JCBA Negotiating Committee as we approach the upcoming negotiations. It's time to move forward together!
 

All I can say is the 4% will come and go on Jan.5th and it will not be included in my paycheck. Why? Because our two representing bodies cannot get their collective crap together. You can preach united all you want (not a shot at you ograc) but until your/mine/our LEADERSHIP:the position or function of a leader, a person who guides or directs a group:an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction. decides to stop the infighting and do what's best for the membership, then your call for "standing united" will continue to fall on deaf ears. In my opinion, the longer our "LEADERSHIP" fails to lead, the more trouble we will be in when it is time for a JCBA to be negotiated. Just like there was a prime time, a window if you will for the merger to take place, the same can be said with a JCBA. You let oil prices rise, you let a 911 event take place, you let other world disruptions take place etc...and you lose that window, you lose any bargaining power you may have had.
Suggestion, the "LEADERSHIP" better get on the same page (whatever that may be) and soon!

 

[NYer]

All I can say is the 4% will come and go on Jan.5th and it will not be included in my paycheck. Why? Because our two representing bodies cannot get their collective crap together. You can preach united all you want (not a shot at you ograc) but until your/mine/our LEADERSHIP:the position or function of a leader, a person who guides or directs a group:an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction. decides to stop the infighting and do what's best for the membership, then your call for "standing united" will continue to fall on deaf ears. In my opinion, the longer our "LEADERSHIP" fails to lead, the more trouble we will be in when it is time for a JCBA to be negotiated. Just like there was a prime time, a window if you will for the merger to take place, the same can be said with a JCBA. You let oil prices rise, you let a 911 event take place, you let other world disruptions take place etc...and you lose that window, you lose any bargaining power you may have had.
Suggestion, the "LEADERSHIP" better get on the same page (whatever that may be) and soon!

 
I second that motion.

 

[ograc]

All I can say is the 4% will come and go on Jan.5th and it will not be included in my paycheck. Why? Because our two representing bodies cannot get their collective crap together. You can preach united all you want (not a shot at you ograc) but until your/mine/our LEADERSHIP:the position or function of a leader, a person who guides or directs a group:an act or instance of leading; guidance; direction. decides to stop the infighting and do what's best for the membership, then your call for "standing united" will continue to fall on deaf ears. In my opinion, the longer our "LEADERSHIP" fails to lead, the more trouble we will be in when it is time for a JCBA to be negotiated. Just like there was a prime time, a window if you will for the merger to take place, the same can be said with a JCBA. You let oil prices rise, you let a 911 event take place, you let other world disruptions take place etc...and you lose that window, you lose any bargaining power you may have had.
Suggestion, the "LEADERSHIP" better get on the same page (whatever that may be) and soon!

 
AANOTOK,
While I respect your opinion I will have to disagree. First of all, it is my understanding, what is holding up JCBA negotiations for our group, is the NMB recognizing the Association as the collective bargaining representative of the combined group. Hardly the leadership's fault. That is not to say that more work couldn't be done between the leadership of both the IAM and the TWU prior to a ruling by the NMB. You are right. A 4% wage bump will not be in your paycheck come January 5th. I believe DP would love to give that to you along with work rule and scope concessions in your next JCBA. If they're offering 4% up front do you really believe it is out of the goodness of their heart? I don't. I believe they would be after concessions in other areas of your future contract that would return much more than the initial cost of a 4% wage increase. We're being baited to take the money and disregard the pesky details again. How many times will this strategy work before the members wake up to the importance of a contract in it's entirety. We should look at the contract at UA as an example of how effective this strategy is. The union leadership and the members at UA are now charged with going for the money. Let's be patient. Let's learn from previous mistakes. Haste makes waste and still waters run deep Brother.
Respectfully submitted. 
 

 

[NYer]

 
AANOTOK,
While I respect your opinion I will have to disagree. First of all, it is my understanding, what is holding up JCBA negotiations for our group, is the NMB recognizing the Association as the collective bargaining representative of the combined group. Hardly the leadership's fault. That is not to say that more work couldn't be done between the leadership of both the IAM and the TWU prior to a ruling by the NMB. You are right. A 4% wage bump will not be in your paycheck come January 5th. I believe DP would love to give that to you along with work rule and scope concessions in your next JCBA. If they're offering 4% up front do you really believe it is out of the goodness of their heart? I don't. I believe they would be after concessions in other areas of your future contract that would return much more than the initial cost of a 4% wage increase. We're being baited to take the money and disregard the pesky details again. How many times will this strategy work before the members wake up to the importance of a contract in it's entirety. We should look at the contract at UA as an example of how effective this strategy is. The union leadership and the members at UA are now charged with going for the money. Let's be patient. Let's learn from previous mistakes. Haste makes waste and still waters run deep Brother.
Respectfully submitted. 
 

 
Do you believe it beneficial to wait and extract every possible morsel but at the same time risk the chance of favorable conditions turning into unfavorable conditions? 
 
Prime example, let's say UA announces they will close another 30 or 40 stations while we are trying to re-open and re-staff stations...won't that make it more difficult for us to succeed? It seems the best way to get the best deal is to act while the conditions are in our favor, as far as fuel prices, market conditions, the world economy, the national economy, no warfare in our near future and so on.
 
If we are to learn from the past then we don't have to look too further than 2008. Coming off two years where the airline made a profit the mantra at that time was restore and more. We ended up not bringing forward a 3 year contract that would have allowed raises which we didn't see until 4 years later and after a BK.
 
It is true that a rushing a deal for the sake of raises is not the best way to go, but I don't believe the opposite is in our best interest either.
 
If we would have taken these past 6 months or so and started preparing for negotiations and even talked to the airline to see what their positions were...we wouldn't have to rush but at the same time we'd be better prepared and could of had the necessary debates now rather than wasting time and risking conditions turn away from our favor later.

 

[ograc]

 
Do you believe it beneficial to wait and extract every possible morsel but at the same time risk the chance of favorable conditions turning into unfavorable conditions? 
 
Prime example, let's say UA announces they will close another 30 or 40 stations while we are trying to re-open and re-staff stations...won't that make it more difficult for us to succeed? It seems the best way to get the best deal is to act while the conditions are in our favor, as far as fuel prices, market conditions, the world economy, the national economy, no warfare in our near future and so on.
 
If we are to learn from the past then we don't have to look too further than 2008. Coming off two years where the airline made a profit the mantra at that time was restore and more. We ended up not bringing forward a 3 year contract that would have allowed raises which we didn't see until 4 years later and after a BK.
 
It is true that a rushing a deal for the sake of raises is not the best way to go, but I don't believe the opposite is in our best interest either.
 
If we would have taken these past 6 months or so and started preparing for negotiations and even talked to the airline to see what their positions were...we wouldn't have to rush but at the same time we'd be better prepared and could of had the necessary debates now rather than wasting time and risking conditions turn away from our favor later.

Are you suggesting a JCBA should be reached as soon as possible based on current oil prices and the lack of a recent terrorist attack on our soil? Please be assured... the company will always find some reason to seek concessions in contract talks. I've been around for 34+ years. I have heard it all before. 09/11, oil prices, competition from low cost carriers and so on. In the end... DP's, and historically other previous CEOs interests, lie strictly with profits and ultimate returns to the stockholders. What if, 6 months from now, oil prices continue to drop as forecasted? What if 6 months down the road we are paying less than $3.00 per gallon at the pump? What if 6 months down the road Russia's economy continues to tank, North Korea softens their stand and there is no credible domestic terrorist. I would suggest all three examples are quite likely. Do you take your shot now or wait for a better kill shot? It's a matter of opinion I guess. Regardless, the NMB must rule first on the recognition of the Association as the Bargaining Representative of the combined Fleet group, before formal and meaningful JCBA negotiations can begin. The airline will not entertain any informal talks, prior to formal negotiations, to reveal what their position or agenda will be in future contract negotiations. The process is slow. It is a test of patience, commitment and solidarity. Let's be patient and committed to the solidarity and long term benefit of the combined Fleet membership. Patience is a virtue.    

 

[robbedagain]

We had a guy who worked during his vacation which was last week if u work during the vacation does the employee get paid for either 1 or the other or how does it work? Also someone else got sick and was out for few days of which 1 was on a holiday yet that agent did not get the holiday pay bec that person was sick

 

[AANOTOK]

A few years back I did the same thing, can't recall the circumstances but I had a weeks vacation but ended up working. I got paid for days worked and also received a vacation paycheck.

 

[robbedagain]

thanks AAnotok    I did look in our 14 agreement  but I have not found anything regarding able to work or not during vacation

 

[roabilly]

Happy New Year everyone...
 
2015 will hopefully bring an awesome agreement to Fleet in the form of a JCBA. Industry profits are projected to remain at historic highs, so this is an unprecedented window of opportunity in Airline Labor History. Don’t waste it!
 
The current folks at the IAM/TWU are all more than capable of negotiating an Industry leading agreement. Remember one thing though... YOU will be the final authority on YOUR contract.
 
Good luck, stay strong, and most importantly... STAY TOGETHER.
 
Do no fall for any political rhetoric thrown into this forum to distract you from the task at hand!

 

[MetalMover]

 
AANOTOK,
While I respect your opinion I will have to disagree. First of all, it is my understanding, what is holding up JCBA negotiations for our group, is the NMB recognizing the Association as the collective bargaining representative of the combined group. Hardly the leadership's fault. That is not to say that more work couldn't be done between the leadership of both the IAM and the TWU prior to a ruling by the NMB. You are right. A 4% wage bump will not be in your paycheck come January 5th. I believe DP would love to give that to you along with work rule and scope concessions in your next JCBA. If they're offering 4% up front do you really believe it is out of the goodness of their heart? I don't. I believe they would be after concessions in other areas of your future contract that would return much more than the initial cost of a 4% wage increase. We're being baited to take the money and disregard the pesky details again. How many times will this strategy work before the members wake up to the importance of a contract in it's entirety. We should look at the contract at UA as an example of how effective this strategy is. The union leadership and the members at UA are now charged with going for the money. Let's be patient. Let's learn from previous mistakes. Haste makes waste and still waters run deep Brother.
Respectfully submitted. 
 

Good post. The JCBA +4% will come at a cost..in the name of further givebacks in one way or another. And this eagerness to "hurry up" and to "get er done" mentality will find us again with an industry LOSING contract. 

 

[psa8979]

RLA,NMB, ASSOCIATION, AAL ,EVENTS, and MEMBERSHIP will be the deciding factors in JCBA . NOT ! AF Posters / Readers . The sad reality is APATHY will continue in 2015 with the majority of UNION Members . Amending  the RLA in 2016 by Congress for real reform and change would be a game changer for ALL Airline Workers moving forward in 2015 . WE shall see ? Fish On !