1st Q Numbers look great!

WNMECH said:
We are leaving $1.5 billion per year out there.

We have already put all the legacies in bankruptcy which caused the consolidation into only three big airlines.
We still carry the most domestic passengers than any of them.
How long do you think WN will wait to charge for bags and cash in on their domestic passenger dominant position?
Disclaimer:  I'm a long-time shareholder in LUV.    
 
As WT frequently points out,  WN already gets higher average fares on some of its DAL routes than AA gets on the equivalent routes from DFW.  Long gone are the days when Southwest always had the lowest fares.    Unbundling bag fees has allowed the legacies to advertise lower base fares than Southwest.    Sure, during the Great Recession, Gary Kelly said that "bags fly free" was worth $800 million a year in additional revenue for WN.   All the legacies were bleeding money at the time.
 
Now, the legacies are mostly profitable and all collect huge amounts in checked bag fees.   WN, on the other hand, has baked the checked bag fees into many of its fares.   WN passengers are frequently paying for checked bags even though there is no itemized fee for checked bags like at the legacies.
 
As October approaches, and WN hopes to carry the Metroplex business passengers on longer nonstop flights for the first time (anywhere in the country), those business travelers (who almost never check bags) are going to notice the higher fares since many WN fares include the amounts for checked bag fees built-in.   How happy will they all be paying for the checked bags they aren't checking?   At AA and the other legacies, their elite frequent flyer status exempts them from the bag fees.   So in some markets, AA's fares are lower - AA's yield and PRASM is lower, because those numbers don't include the treasure trove of checked bag fees paid by the infrequent travelers - the ones who don't have elite status.   
 
It has to be on the minds of some WN executives.   The business travelers Kelly wants to target at DAL next month for long-haul domestic flights are probably all AAdvatage elites.   They fly all the time and they never pay checked bag fees even on those rare occasions when they check bags - like family holidays.   For one day or two day trips to LAX or SFO or NYC, they fit everything they need in a carryon bag.  
 
And I hope that nobody is so ignorant as to assume that they'll magically begin checking bags when flying WN because "bags fly free."   They don't check bags because their carryon has valuable, key, important things in it that they absolutely need for the business trip - often a lot of electronic doo-hickeys and gizmos.    They wouldn't check that stuff if the airline paid them $50 per checked bag.    The trip is pointless if their bag is lost, misdelivered or pilfered by baggage handlers at the airline or the TSA, both of whom are known to steal from passengers.  
 
"Bags fly free" is great when your target audience is infrequent families on holiday where everyone has two huge checked bags.   That ain't the target market next month at DAL.   Longhaul flights at DAL are all about the business person toting a briefcase and a rollaboard.   Not unlike the typical HOU-DAL or DAL-AUS passengers today.   Important people flying on expensive tickets don't give a rat's ass about free checked bags.   They don't check bags.   
 
So at some point, Kelly has to decide whether he wants to be the airline of choice for those who simply must pack the kitchen sink every time they travel and choose WN so they can "save" $120 or more per person round trip.   Maybe it's time to begin charging them for all that cargo they bring with them.
 
Like you said - it might be $1.5 billion a year.   But if WN matches everyone else on checked bags, some consumers might notice that the fares need to come down since they'll have to pony up the $120 round trip for checked bags.  That might reduce the total net gain to WN to something smaller than $1.5 billion.   Still a big chunk of change.   
 
good points.

let's also be clear that part of the reason why the US legacy carriers added bag fees is because it forces more and more luggage into the passenger compartment and reduces the amount of staffing that is needed on the ramp.

Not only is WN foregoing good revenue but they are also incurring costs that would not be necessary if passengers had to pay for luggage. And WN's rampers are well aware that they are working harder because of the company's marketing strategy which isn't yielding them any additional staffing or pay.

It is absolutely true that business travelers generally know how to travel light, carry their belongings onboard, and get in and out of the airport with the least amount of interaction with airline employees - because they heavily use self-service tools as well.

Thus, WN is incurring costs by providing an expensive service in baggage handling to the people who pay the lowest fares.

The real question WN has to ask is if they are better off upgrading the product for their highest value customers instead of asking them to subsidize services used most heavily by their lowest value customers.

And the amount of checked baggage will continue increase as WN's network focuses on more and more longhaul routes.

WN is in a significant restructuring of its network with growth not just at DAL but also DCA as well as trying to hold onto FL customers who did pay bag fees and undoubtedly find the prospect of ditching them enticing.

At some point, though, they have to focus on the long-term financial well being which involves lower costs and more closely connecting service to the type of clients.

The one size fits all service strategy WN uses not only adds costs that WN likely would not need to spend, misses revenue that it could have, but also limits their ability to increase the value of their product to the very business passengers that legacy carriers cater very well too.
 
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WNMECH said:
Read this:

Southwest generated ~$1.30 per passenger in bag and change fees in 2013, compared to $7.25 at JetBlue and ~$15 at Delta Air Lines (DAL) and United Continental (UAL). JetBlues share price increase in recent months from roughly $8 to $12 per share has been driven primarily by estimate increases which assume a first bag fee can allow JetBlue to increase its bag/change fees from $7.25 to ~$15 (equal to roughly $200m in incremental revenue or ~$0.35 in EPS). If Southwest changed its fee strategy and was able to generate $15 per passenger, this equates to roughly $1.5b in revenue and ~$1.45 in EPS, ~$20 using a 14x multiple.



We are leaving $1.5 billion per year out there.

We have already put all the legacies in bankruptcy which caused the consolidation into only three big airlines.
We still carry the most domestic passengers than any of them.
How long do you think WN will wait to charge for bags and cash in on their domestic passenger dominant position?
I hear you loud and clear.  And I honestly think and have stated it is coming by 15 or 16.  However the estimates givin for SWA's gains for baggage fees to be added are based upon the number of passengers flying currently which would more than likely decrease if SWA were to start charging like the other airlines. But if SWA was to charge only half what the other airlines charge for their bags to be transported then this would negate most of that and come out on top by keeping the passengers and yet still reaping the awards of the gained fees coming in.  I agree, SWA is missing out on alot of revenue by not charging for bags, but, Kelly has been quoted that by not charging the baggage fees (as well as other fees) that the number of passengers flying us make up more than doing so.  Is this a fact?  No clue, I am not a bean counter.  I see the baggage fees coming once this current record profits begin to slow down and the company looks for another way to bring in some new revenue.  But at the same time I really think it will be as a last result, if you will...
 
uh.... did you read what the article actually says instead of just jumping to the conclusion that WN has an opportunity to grow?

the title says "trouble is coming for Air Canada and WestJet"

did you bother to ask why - and if that has an effect on what WN will do?

let me help you out.

here is Air Canada's latest traffic report which shows the 'record load factors' which the article mentioned.

now... look at the growth in ASMs and traffic and you will see that Air Canada added 7.5% capacity but managed to fill 8.1% more seats.

Filling more seats is great if you get more revenue doing it but the article specifically noted that AC is NOT seeing increased revenue proportionate with its increased traffic.

Air Canada breaks down its traffic so you can see where they not only carry their traffic by region but also where their growth is coming.

about 30% of AC's traffic is within Canada. WN cannot compete in that segment. Capacity is not growing in that segment.

14% of AC's traffic is on US transborder routes. WN CAN compete in that segment. AC added 8.4% more capacity and managed to fill even more than that. Chances are REAL high that their yields went down in the process.

AC also flies transatlantic and transpacific routes which make up about half of their traffic. WN doesn't and can't compete in those segments.
However, AC added even more TATL capacity than they did to the US but they didn't fill near as much capacity as they added.

Are you aware that WestJet has decided to add longhaul int'l aircraft to its fleet and begin longhaul service? The mess up north is only going to get worse.

If you understand the Canadian market, you know that AC is battling the growth of low fare carriers into TATL markets. Their yields are undoubtedly going down in the process.

Finally, AC breaks out their Caribbean routes - the smallest segment of their traffic. WN could compete in that segment - but probably cannot do so cost effectively because of the way US-Canada taxes are calculated.

So, AC and WestJet are battling it out between themselves and with other carriers to grow market share in a country that is 1/10th the size of the US, has aviation taxes which are not only much higher than they are in the US but are growing, and where fares are coming down right at the time WN is thinking about where it can fly all of the new planes it has on order using its new int'l capabilities.

Canada hardly looks like the kind of environment that any airline company that wants to make money would be in right now.

Hawaii looks very much like a very safe bet financially compared to the Canadian market.

Other markets including within the US look even better in comparison.
 
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swamt  Im surprised to an extent that WN will start BWI to San Jose Costa Rica rather than say DAL     glad though to see that is occuring.
 
International operations are not permitted from DAL and HOU is not ready.

Since they are pulling down ATL and pulling out of current int'l routes, and don't want to touch Florida to Latin America just yet (avoiding a head butt with B6), BWI might be the next best alternative.
 
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  • #194
robbedagain said:
swamt  Im surprised to an extent that WN will start BWI to San Jose Costa Rica rather than say DAL     glad though to see that is occuring.
I have always said BWI will in fact be one of the biggest international leaders in our network.  Dallas will not be as the W/A will still hold a presence as we cannot fly international from DAL, for now.  But who knows about the future...
 

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