-190 Pay Rates

[AAviator]

I must be getting old, crotchety and out of touch. You guys are arguing with your bank accounts. Reality isn't even coming into play here guys. If you had been around pre deregulation, you would know that your arguments are baseless. If you had paid attention to your corporate leadership and their feeble ways of dealing with the 'new kid on the block', whom all of you are determined to blame on your faltering wages, you would realize that good companies survive in all conditions. Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction and a result of your own frustration. I've said it before and I'll say it again, after having paid my ALPA dues for well over 25 years and worked for the 'elite' and seen the same go down the drain with the promise of victory ringing in our loyal ears, I believe you may be guilty of drinking the Kool Aid my friend. Look at history awhile and let's see what happened with all the old timers who have led the industry after economics of the country finally made it necessary to either produce or reduce. Reductions have taken their tolls and always are blamed on the employee groups huge wages. It may be a bitter pill for you to swallow but you may have to shed your dinosaur shell and recognize that it is not the employees of JBU, Airtran, SWA, etc, etc, who are your nemesis but the changing times which some companies adapt to and others don't. We are a lot of beat up individuals one and all. Deny it and look at your written rhetoric. We are all doing what we like to do and if you think that it is no longer a fair and even playing field, quit whining and go elsewhere oh bold one.

Translation: There's a race to the bottom, and JetBlue is leading the way. :down:

 

[jj]

Not only is a race to the bottom but mgmt. gets what they want a high turnover rate and nobody wants to make this a career.Noone will make it to the top of the payscale.Just wait till these darlings come out of the dreamland and try to pay their rent. :down:

 

[jbu320]

Not only is a race to the bottom but mgmt. gets what they want a high turnover rate and nobody wants to make this a career.Noone will make it to the top of the payscale.Just wait till these darlings come out of the dreamland and try to pay their rent. TE]

Keep those ALPA dues up to date 'brother' and see what they'll buy you when you need some rent money.

 

[AAviator]

funny, you guys set the bar on the ground and are loving it.

Like I said those rates are rates you'll never have to see with your seniority, so who cares... right?

SW f/a's have more spine than you.

 

[MadDogMike]

Oh I've already heard the fable about how a little airline with 20 airplanes single-handedly brought down the whole airline industry with just a huff and a puff of its big bad CEO 😀

How long have you been in the airline industry? You sound like a greenhorn. Do you really think you exist in a vacuum? Do you not understand pattern bargaining?

There are 23-year old regional captains on 40 to 50 seat planes who will make more than your 100-seat mainline jet (E-190) captains. In fact, some 50-seat RJ captains make as much as 50% more than your E-190 rates.

But of course, these are regionals that are associated with "legacy" carriers. We all know those dinosaurs are doomed to failure, primarily because they pay their pilots too much, right?

OK, then let's look at another LCC, like Air Tran. Gee, your new rates are only HALF of what they pay their captains on the same class equipment. Way to go guys.

 

[TDR1502C]

If they're really clever the mechanics will have different pay rates for -190's also.

 

[jbu320]

funny, you guys set the bar on the ground and are loving it.

Like I said those rates are rates you'll never have to see with your seniority, so who cares... right?

SW f/a's have more spine than you.

Rhetoric, amigo. This is not an issue of spine. You do something that any professional in this business knows to never do. MAKE AN ASSUMPTION. Your parroting is annoying at best. Your accusations are baseless. You read what is posted on this board as fact and really have no idea what takes place on the property between the employees of our company and management. If you believe we are spineless and dragging you and 'your industry' down, you need a reality check which inevitably you will receive at some point in your career.
We are not a group of scabs, has beens or inexperienced commuter types which you would like to believe.
In certain professional circles, it would be prudent to respond to your idiocy but since it is obvious that you are only out to chastise and belittle, I'll take it for what it is. Hopefully the rest of the readers will see what a lot of cheap shots some of you are firing our direction with no basis for it.
To refer to a previous post, I hardly believe we as a tiny domestic carrier are dragging you and your world class companies down because we don't pay union dues. B)

 

[AAviator]

Mesa has a union, and they said "no" to dog-sh1t pay on the 737. 72$/hr was dropped in your lap. There was nobody sitting across the table from Neeleman when these were introduced.

But thats beside the point. You're mistaking me for someone else who might have refered to you as scabs, has beens, or commuter types. WE all do the same job, to some extent, and I personally find your desire, and defense of these pathetic pay rates disgusting

AWA pilots brought their pay up. Airtran F/A's brought their pay up. SWA F/A's brought their pay up. You guys are without question lowering the bar in the 100 seat category.

I understand your lap-dog response though....... 🙄

 

[jbu320]

Mesa has a union, and they said "no" to dog-sh1t pay on the 737. 72$/hr was dropped in your lap. There was nobody sitting across the table from Neeleman when these were introduced.

But thats beside the point. You're mistaking me for someone else who might have refered to you as scabs, has beens, or commuter types. WE all do the same job, to some extent, and I personally find your desire, and defense of these pathetic pay rates disgusting

AWA pilots brought their pay up. Airtran F/A's brought their pay up. SWA F/A's brought their pay up. You guys are without question lowering the bar in the 100 seat category.

I understand your lap-dog response though....... 🙄

Good point on the four carriers you refer to as having raised their 'dog ####' wages to your level of approval. If you're able to lower yourself from your throne of superiority, wealth, prestiege and judgement for a moment, I believe you will find that all of those companies have been in existance considerably longer than JBU. I am completely baffled by why you believe I am desiring to defend our pathetic wages. Your company didn't start at your current payscale either. At any rate, your disgust makes no difference to me and tells me that you are more than a bit pompous in your own view of us pathetic bottom feeders in this industry. I also would like to know what it is that you do in your job that is different from mine. If you tell me you are an international widebody pilot you're off base too. I and many of my co workers have been there in our lives also.
If you must refer to me as a lap dog, I must tell you that I view you as the fire hydrant. Back off on your attacks please oh sire of the industry. You're only better than I and my fellow workers in your own mind. With just a short while left before hanging my airline career up, I can tell you that I enjoy myself and my job immensely but will not miss the attitude of the new wonders of our industry such as yourself when I do finish the long haul I and my family have been blessed with. Bow wow!! :down:

 

[AAviator]

.....wow

take care...

 

[jbu320]

.....wow

take care...

Thank you.

Whatever the opinion, we are not working for nothing, not lower class or lesser in our capabilities and if the shoe doesn't fit, most of us (who have been around awhile in this business) will either walk away from the company, try to bargain 'in good faith with no representation' or seek representation' - as has usually been the need for airmen at other organizations in the past. We aren't the highest paid by a long shot but we are treated extremely well and with respect. We have other benefits and kindnesses shown to us which most of us have not seen anywhere else. In our own little minds, it presently is a fantastic place to work (it doesn't really seem like work to any of us - does it), and most everyone is happy and shows it. Many of us came from positions which had much sounder and enforceable work rules and in my case, pay of a much higher bottom line, a lot of it being non taxable. The attitude and track record of the man behind the wheel here spoke loudly in making the very difficult decision and a lot of us chose to invest/gamble for it. It is only my opinion and one shared by most of my co workers, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again after nearly 5 years with this little company. Time may prove us all faulted in our beliefs and it may make all the naysayers happy to say 'I told you so' but I don't hold that crystal ball. One thing I can tell you as a long time ALPA member in my previous life, I and none of the others who are in a similar position at this company would ever consider doing this if we believed it would destroy, belittle or cause personal loss to any other airline or it's employees. It is not a narrow minded view but one attempting to adapt to the changes around us as well as the rest of corporate America. I don't even think Pan Am in it's many years of loss and slow death was plagued by low cost upstarts nor was Braniff in it's over expansion zeal. Truth be, there are many things beyond our view as line pilots that cause havoc in our companies. I hope I am never guilty of causing loss for anyone else.
Best Wishes.

 

[skybolt]

I don't post often, but this string needs another opinion. For what it's worth, I think that B6 is presenting the payscale now in hopes of aclimating their pilots to it. Because with the way that the US economy is accelerating, it won't be long before profits return and wages reverse the trend of the last few years. JetBlue wants to get it's pilots on board with and accepting of these rock bottom wages while pilots are still lucky to have jobs.

BTW, in full disclosure I am employed by Spirit, and I'm certainly not looking down on any B6 pilot.

skybolt

 

[AAStew]

So let me get this straight, if you fly left seat at 80 hrs a month you will be grossing $6000 (rounded up). This is after years of college, flying just to get your hours or military service.
That is about $72,000 a year. Not poverty, but not what you expected when you decided to become a pilot. I think it may be called barely scraping by in most major cities. In DC suburbs $55,000 a year for a family of four qualifies you for subsidized housing.
I commend those of you who are performing this job with such a great attitude, it is so much easier to just be miserable about it.
(I edited this since it sounded kind of snide the eay it was writtn b4) :unsure:

 

[MadDogMike]

I know a few Comair pilots who had been offered the job with jetBlue. Then the E190 rates came out. They realized they could make more money flying jets half that size at a regional airline. They turned down the job.

Makes you wonder, who would accept a job at jetBlue now? So much for quality control. Safety, schmafety.

 

[eagleflip]

I know a few Comair pilots who had been offered the job with jetBlue. Then the E190 rates came out. They realized they could make more money flying jets half that size at a regional airline. They turned down the job.

Baloney. :down:

IF any of your acquaintences from Comair has been offered a job at JB they would be going to an A320 with the normal pay scale. No one has been hired to fly the 190, so the proposed pay for that aircraft would not come into play on anyone's decision unless they care about what someone else is going to be paid at a later date.

Your rhetoric is patently false. :angry:

Of course, we have many former Comair pilots at JB and they do a great job.

For the record, I am not a fan of the EMB pay, but I am also willing to see what our management does in the face of sincere crewmember discontent on the subject. Naive? Nope, just waiting for them to "do the right thing." We'll figure out that issue soon enough.