-190 Pay Rates

[Winglet]

JB seems to be doing things pretty well, but that's no guarantee of a future. This business can turn on itself in a heartbeat. Airline history is littered with stories that started out like JB. If you're a JB employee and have your income, savings, and . . . . sorry, no retirement at JB . . . . in the same company, you're crazy. Whether JB thrives long term is far from certain, so go easy on the kool-aid and keep you're options open for your next job.

 

[AAviator]

Well, okay, so the B6 pilot doesn't have a defined benefit pension. But he does have extensive stock options, profit sharing (not insignificant - has paid ~10% per year), a 401k match, and pretty decent health benefits.

Oh yeah. The B6 pilot also has the job security that comes with working for a growing, thriving, profitable company.

The B6 pilot also has the job security that comes with working for a growing, thriving, profitable company

What carrier wouldn't be all of those at c- compensation packages?

You forgot to mention the elimination of the sick days, and vacation days at JB. They get PTO. Personal time off. Its neither vacation or sick time. If you're sick, you burn it, if you want vacation, you burn it. It accrues at at rate similar to other airlines sick accrual.

Anyway you slice it, its one benefit thats been eliminated. :down:

The guys on the property right now could care less about those rates. They're for the unborn.

 

[B6Busdriver]

The B6 pilot also has the job security that comes with working for a growing, thriving, profitable company

What carrier wouldn't be all of those at c- compensation packages?

You forgot to mention the elimination of the sick days, and vacation days at JB. They get PTO. Personal time off. Its neither vacation or sick time. If you're sick, you burn it, if you want vacation, you burn it. It accrues at at rate similar to other airlines sick accrual.

Anyway you slice it, its one benefit thats been eliminated. :down:

The guys on the property right now could care less about those rates. They're for the unborn.

Quit saying the guys on the property could care less about the 190 rates. That just is not true!

 

[MadDogMike]

Are you proud of yourselves, jetBLue pilots? Have you not denigrated the profession enough already? There is a race to the bottom going on in this industry, and you are in first place. What's it going to take before you grow a backbone and organize, so you have the legal right to negotiate for your pay rates?

 

[Speedbird]

Sarcasism: On

That was a nice cogent post maddog!

I know jetBlue pilots all over are truly hurt and shocked by your profound and accurate insight to the real source of the "problem."

Sarcasism: Off

 

[luv2fly]

Sarcasism: On

That was a nice cogent post maddog!

I know jetBlue pilots all over are truly hurt and shocked by your profound and accurate insight to the real source of the "problem."

Sarcasism: Off

While I may not agree with the way maddog posted it, you have to admit speedbird, that the the bar for airline compensation and benefits has been lowered in part due to the LCC's. Namely JB.

 

[Speedbird]

Well let's see luv:

jetblue: 65 airplanes & 850 pilots

American: 500 airplanes & 7000 pilots

United: 500 airplanes & 7000 pilots

So jetBlue, a young non-union airline, introduces a payrate for a yet undelivered 100 seat aircraft. Meanwhile two of the world's largest airlines have negotiated pay reductions and work rule changes which are on the order of a 25-30% reduction to previously agreed upon labor contracts. So maybe its me but it seems that on an objective level, based on the overall impact to the larger profession of US airline pilots, one could successfully argue that AA & UAL have created far more damage than jetBlue to that beloved "bar."

 

[luv2fly]

Meanwhile two of the world's largest airlines have negotiated pay reductions and work rule changes which are on the order of a 25-30% reduction to previously agreed upon labor contracts.

And just why do you think those 25-30% reductions were necessary? The LCC's have started a "lets see how low we can go" philosophy, and JB has just lowered the bar with these rates. Nothing personal.. just fact.

 

[Speedbird]

Oh I've already heard the fable about how a little airline with 20 airplanes single-handedly brought down the whole airline industry with just a huff and a puff of its big bad CEO

 

[luv2fly]

Oh I've already heard the fable about how a little airline with 20 airplanes single-handedly brought down the whole airline industry with just a huff and a puff of its big bad CEO

You know, I can appreciate you enthusiasm for JB. As a matter of fact, I admire it. It is one of the main reasons JB is doing so well right now. Lets see how long it lasts.

 

[Speedbird]

Luv2,

I think that's a great idea! The good folks at jetBlue are not being deprived of abundant advice and opinions from others in the industry on how they should manage their own affairs...quite the contrary. I think now is a good time for everyone to just let things develop at jetBlue and see how jetBlue's own takes care of their "issues." I am supremely confident that jetBlue and its employees will do just fine.

 

[FWAAA]

Yep, the "low" wages paid by B6 are all the fault of the spineless pilots who accept such sub-par wages. Uh-huh.

Our country currently has a massive surplus of airline pilots, and more are minted everyday. Too many pilots = lower wages.

Same thing as oil. Several times in the last 20 years, oil has dipped below $15/bbl, and gas hits $0.79 at the pump. Too much oil = price collapes.

Supply and demand usually wins out, even when labor joins together to form unions. Look at the recent experience of pilots at AA, UA, US, and soon to be DL (and probably NW). CO pilots took it in the shorts during the previous two bankruptcies, so paycuts may not happen there for a while.

 

[luv2fly]

Our country currently has a massive surplus of airline pilots, and more are minted everyday. Too many pilots = lower wages.

This is really not a valid argument. At DL, the current PWA was negotiated during a time when there there was an abundance of pilots available. The so called pilot shortage that had been predicted for many years never really materialized. The state of the economy and corporate profits have typically dictated the effects on pilot pay, not availability.

 

[dogdriver]

I'd rather have a career that I love, even if it's not at the ruinous payrates that the guys at the majors have crammed down the company's and public's throats. Like I said, it's about flying and working with and for great people that don't complain and pitch in together to clean the planes, dump the lavs, or whatever else needs to be done . . . . and not how much money you make or if you have a secure retirement. Forget retirement schemes, they're going away because the flying public shouldn't have to pay extra so you can retire in a million dollar house on the beach.

Besides, at JetBlue if you get in soon enough, you can upgrade quickly and make more hourly pay than a major FO. As far as the guys who are late to the party, well, that's just too bad, but like I said, it 's not about money . . . it's about being part of the JetBlue team. If that's not enough for you, then JetBlue doesn't need ya.

Hey Winglet,

Did you save any cool aid for anyone else?

 

[jbu320]

I must be getting old, crotchety and out of touch. You guys are arguing with your bank accounts. Reality isn't even coming into play here guys. If you had been around pre deregulation, you would know that your arguments are baseless. If you had paid attention to your corporate leadership and their feeble ways of dealing with the 'new kid on the block', whom all of you are determined to blame on your faltering wages, you would realize that good companies survive in all conditions. Your blame is pointed in the wrong direction and a result of your own frustration. I've said it before and I'll say it again, after having paid my ALPA dues for well over 25 years and worked for the 'elite' and seen the same go down the drain with the promise of victory ringing in our loyal ears, I believe you may be guilty of drinking the Kool Aid my friend. Look at history awhile and let's see what happened with all the old timers who have led the industry after economics of the country finally made it necessary to either produce or reduce. Reductions have taken their tolls and always are blamed on the employee groups huge wages. It may be a bitter pill for you to swallow but you may have to shed your dinosaur shell and recognize that it is not the employees of JBU, Airtran, SWA, etc, etc, who are your nemesis but the changing times which some companies adapt to and others don't. We are a lot of beat up individuals one and all. Deny it and look at your written rhetoric. We are all doing what we like to do and if you think that it is no longer a fair and even playing field, quit whining and go elsewhere oh bold one.