18 Year Mainline Pilot, $58k/year
- Thread starter Pacemaker
- Start date
PineyBob said:
Why put wage pressure on them. Would it not be better to let them grow and thrive. One could start over there and in three years make more than an 18 year pilot at UAIR and would the profession would be better off by not lowering the bar or racing to the bottom.. Heck with all the growth that would follow at those carriers, one might be a C/O in a few years and back through the 6 digit barrier at ahealty company.
El Gato said:
Well at least he's finally answered where he fits into the grand scheme of things and how he knows the answers to everyones problems and what everyones worth is. Bet some of the guys around here have been working at US (or previous administrations) longer than he's been alive.
oldiebutgoody
Veteran
- Aug 23, 2002
- 2,627
- 945
And, to show just how smart El Gato is, I know waitresses that make MORE than he/she does flying the 145. Mom must be real proud!
What an interesting development with the wage rates proposed by the company.
I think it's obvious what is going on here in typical company fashion. They do not want a deal but will settle for one nevertheless. This way when BK2 is filed they will have a new LOW WAGE POINT to start cutting from. You flyboys are being duped!! You are in a corner and there is no way out.
It's not much different here on the mechanic side. But I still rather take a chance with a judge than submit to this abominable lot of CRIMINALS :angry: !!! It's their way or the highway right?? Enough of that crap. Give them concessions yet again and all you will accomplish is going out the door with a lower wage. Period!!
As soon as the company gets thru with your group the M&E are next. And the severity of the situation depends on the arbitration ruling......on the breach of our CBA. That's what you can expect from our robber barron management :down: !!
I view it this way.....No Pilots = No Flt's. But there's more.........No Mechanics = No Aircraft = No Flt's = No Airline. How about that math???? Nobody ever thinks about that equation seeing how non-issue mechanics have become in this day and age of farmouts!! Well I say bring it on!!!
58K isn't so bad........most mechanics are lucky to earn that much and you keep clean while flying
. If you want to exchange "paying your dues" to get where you are today remember we did our time too........I worked at JFK in the A.M. and EWR in the P.M the same day. Yep....two different states!!! All in the name of aviation. Just some food for thought.
Good luck to all.
I think it's obvious what is going on here in typical company fashion. They do not want a deal but will settle for one nevertheless. This way when BK2 is filed they will have a new LOW WAGE POINT to start cutting from. You flyboys are being duped!! You are in a corner and there is no way out.
It's not much different here on the mechanic side. But I still rather take a chance with a judge than submit to this abominable lot of CRIMINALS :angry: !!! It's their way or the highway right?? Enough of that crap. Give them concessions yet again and all you will accomplish is going out the door with a lower wage. Period!!
As soon as the company gets thru with your group the M&E are next. And the severity of the situation depends on the arbitration ruling......on the breach of our CBA. That's what you can expect from our robber barron management :down: !!
I view it this way.....No Pilots = No Flt's. But there's more.........No Mechanics = No Aircraft = No Flt's = No Airline. How about that math???? Nobody ever thinks about that equation seeing how non-issue mechanics have become in this day and age of farmouts!! Well I say bring it on!!!
58K isn't so bad........most mechanics are lucky to earn that much and you keep clean while flying
. If you want to exchange "paying your dues" to get where you are today remember we did our time too........I worked at JFK in the A.M. and EWR in the P.M the same day. Yep....two different states!!! All in the name of aviation. Just some food for thought.Good luck to all.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
The issue is mathematics to get to the $295 million target, with 4 areas of discussions: pay, benefits, retirement, and work rules. The Negotiating Committee and the company are putting the final touches on the agreed upon work rule and benefit changes valuations. ALPA E&FA has done a tremendous service to the parties in providing their expertise during the discussions.
Then you have two issues left: pay ago the company and retirement.
Two weeks ago the company provided ALPA a dual-track approach: a 33% pay cut and 100% of the DC Plan or a 16.5% pay cut and the America West retirement plan.
ALPA ignored the proposals and kept pressing with its pay cut, DC Plan cut, productivity changes, ERIP, expanded VLA of where the senior pilot gets 5 months severance pay, and sick bank cash out, etc.
The challenge is that the parties were dealing with two separate pieces of paper that were "night and day" apart. That changed last night when the company agreed to ALPA's thought process, but proposed deep pay and moderate DC Plan cuts.
After receiving the report ALPA sentiment shifted and now the direction is to preserve pay.
Negotiators from both parties are meeting and the word from the Marriott is that negotiations will continue tonight and the MEC is preparing to review a document that will be a tentative agreement or last company proposal tomorrow, per today's code-a-phone message.
In my opinion, we could see something like a 16.5% pay cut, increase in the pay cap to 95 hours with a 288-hour quarterly rolling average, work rule changes, a 35-40% DC Plan cut, and changes to LTD and retiree health care plan for what is now being called "shared sacrifice" at the meeting.
See you at the meeting.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
Then you have two issues left: pay ago the company and retirement.
Two weeks ago the company provided ALPA a dual-track approach: a 33% pay cut and 100% of the DC Plan or a 16.5% pay cut and the America West retirement plan.
ALPA ignored the proposals and kept pressing with its pay cut, DC Plan cut, productivity changes, ERIP, expanded VLA of where the senior pilot gets 5 months severance pay, and sick bank cash out, etc.
The challenge is that the parties were dealing with two separate pieces of paper that were "night and day" apart. That changed last night when the company agreed to ALPA's thought process, but proposed deep pay and moderate DC Plan cuts.
After receiving the report ALPA sentiment shifted and now the direction is to preserve pay.
Negotiators from both parties are meeting and the word from the Marriott is that negotiations will continue tonight and the MEC is preparing to review a document that will be a tentative agreement or last company proposal tomorrow, per today's code-a-phone message.
In my opinion, we could see something like a 16.5% pay cut, increase in the pay cap to 95 hours with a 288-hour quarterly rolling average, work rule changes, a 35-40% DC Plan cut, and changes to LTD and retiree health care plan for what is now being called "shared sacrifice" at the meeting.
See you at the meeting.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
youngblood
Senior
- Jan 17, 2004
- 373
- 0
usfliboi said:
I believe he probably figured it out from the latest proposal from management. Or didn't you read the update?
L
luvn737s
Guest
There's a kid in El Salvador who can finish up his ICAO tickets, get them converted to FAA and he'll be happy to take your job for $10,000 a year. Think I'm kidding?El Gato said:
luvn737s said:
No, I don't think you are kidding. I think that is a real possibility, and likely to happen someday. But not now; here is why: You can't survive on a $10,000 wage as any sort of pilot in the U.S. - at the present time(Don't worry - four more years of Bush and $10,000 will be easy street). Most commuters are starting in the $20k range, and that is bad, but not unlivable. I did that routine for five years - never needed food stamps, never moaned about it.
Suppose the min wage was....$30,000 a year for a 737 pilot. Would I take it? Especially if I knew it was going to kill off the commie guys out there? Yes, I would. I got into this profession because I loved it, not because of money.
How about this? A 737 is no different than a E-170 really.....it's just double the number of seats in the back. Explain why a 737 guy should get more than double what a 170 guy gets? Or why a 767 is getting more than what he should based on proportion? This is not about fair pay, it is about a greedy union trying to get the most for doing something that is not too remarkable nowadays. Face it, we are not the "skygods" of the past, but overrated busdrivers when it comes down to it, technical issues or not. Let's not make it into something that it isn't.
Crzipilot
Veteran
- Mar 23, 2004
- 906
- 254
Somebody needs to sent the "CAT" to China....whereas he can become dinner. Dude..you are so out of touch with reality..it's unreal. I would assume EVERYONE got into this due to the love of flying. And most will say, they have that feeling everytime they finally get out of line in PHL and line up, power is up...and there's 1000', sun is setting, and there's that feeling. As for greed, it isn't about greed. It's about fair pay. Our skills allow individuals to make some money. And as we have seen in the past few years, to be allowed to make MILLIONS of that money. All that we ask for is a fair representation of that money which is brought in. I.E. the reason a 737 driver should be paid more than a 170 etc etc. If you want to get down to it....a 172 driver isn't much different from a 747 driver, so why should ANY of us make more than 8.00/hr flight pay??? Oh you say because you can't afford to live on 10k a year??? I've known plenty that hve done it...and will do it.........better check your back..
El Gato said:
L
luvn737s
Guest
Well it has to do with productivity and if you couldn't guess that right off the bat, you need more education than I'm willing to provide.El Gato said:
So let's say they take you up on your idea of one low price for all aircraft and you get to your mainline job (and don't lie about not applying to the majors, I just walked past 60 newhires in the training building , mostly ex-regional guys) only to find the slots are filled by those foreign pilots willing and able to do the job for $10,000. The airlines could care less if you can live on $10K, that's your problem.
If some pilots hadn't been willing to walk away from the whole thing rahter than accept progressively lower wages and benefits, probably long before you got started in aviation, the good jobs to which most pilots aspire would have never been. Those who scab, those who allow fear to dictate their choice to accept concessions and those who are willing to fly jets at sweat-shop rates are all guilty of diminishing the profession and making things more difficult for those that come behind them.
hopethingswillbeok
Advanced
- Aug 20, 2002
- 167
- 0
sorry I don't want to see the pilot that I am getting on his/hers aircraft making ten thousand a year........if the company thinks they should only make in the fifty thousand range they are sick.......everyone should vote no....to me it looks like we all are a piece of trash and they are the Gods......let's see the so called Doctor work the front line, go through training and from there go to F/A training, then lets see him fly an airplane.....then come to us with this crap that he is hoping we will be stupid enough to vote for.........Does anyone out there think that these rich folks think we are so hard up for this job that we would do anything? We are not whores and I think that is what they think we are.......
