13% for UAL mechanics, 17.5 for us!

[Hopeful]

No it doesn''t. If 13% is enuf for UAL workers, then why is more necessary for AA workers?

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 1043 AM AAviator wrote:


RV4, should I take that as you being in agreement with me?

----------------
​

No!

You are as vague as the information we are voting on.

What is exactly is it you are advocating anyway?

 

[Hopeful]

Mikey: You do realize that what you give AA now you will NEVER win back in future negotiations. They have finally taken advantage of the events we now find ourselves dealing with. In six years, do you think you will get back your vacation and sick time? You may get a pawltry raise only after conceding more sick time and vacation time and m,edical costs. But hey, Mikey, why don''t you just freeze your salary and benefits until you retire with the promise of never getting laid off?

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 10:44:55 AM KCFlyer wrote:




I owe my ass to no one at American Airlines, except maybe the pilot flying the aircraft I am on.
----------------
​

You are a FOOL, the aircraft you're flying on is being flown by the avionics and systems mechanic most of the flight. But go ahead and advocate them to lose pay/benefits on your behalf, you can afford it.

 

[AAviator]

Hopeful, if it brings their cost structure down to a point where they''re competitive, then yes. But you contradict yourself. You just said "UAL should have been asking for 25% paycuts considering the shape they are in.".

 

[RV4]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 10:17:20 AM AAviator wrote:


Hopeful, doesn''t that illustrate the point? 13% ain''t gonna cut it!
----------------​

What do you propose then?

 

[AAviator]

Hmm. 3% difference. So you want to be competitive with a high cost airline in bankruptcy that has a half baked plan to operate a low cost airline within an airline, that by the way has never worked in the indusrty (even DL express is being replaced) or would you rather be competitive with the remaining 70% of the industry?

Fear fear fear.

 

[AAviator]

RV4, should I take that as you being in agreement with me?

 

[FWAAA]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 10:12:11 AM Hopeful wrote:

Well, Mikey, once AA succeeds in raping its workers. The next step will have the employee paying 80% medical costs to the company''s 20%. But I haven''t forgotten that you F/A''s told Crandall to ef off and went on strike. You didn''t care about the consequences then. But now you are so fearful of losing your jobs. It''s pathetic.

----------------​

Maybe, just maybe, AA wasn''t on death''s door when that strike happened. There was no reasonable possibility of losing your job then.

Today, an AA bankruptcy carries with it the very real possibility that AA would be liquidated.

The two time frames don''t seem very similar to me.

 

[KCFlyer]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 10:29:24 AM Hopeful wrote:

Mikey: You do realize that what you give AA now you will NEVER win back in future negotiations. They have finally taken advantage of the events we now find ourselves dealing with. In six years, do you think you will get back your vacation and sick time?

In six years, without the concessions, will you even HAVE any vacation or sick time? Will you even have a company?

You may get a pawltry raise only after conceding more sick time and vacation time and m,edical costs. But hey, Mikey, why don''t you just freeze your salary and benefits until you retire with the promise of never getting laid off?

Or he could just say "full pay til the last day" and keep it all until he shows up for work to find the doors padlocked and the planes sitting idle.

----------------​

 

[Hopeful]

I haven''t moaned about pilots and F/A''s working 40 hrs a month for obscene wages, have I?

 

[AAviator]

Hopeful you said: "I haven''t moaned about pilots and F/A''s working 40 hrs a month for obscene wages, have I?"

I get paid by the hour. From brakes released, to brakes parked. Nothing in between. Is that OK union brother? 3 days work for 15 hours mostly. Well union brother?

 

[AAviator]

Hopeful aren''t you the same person moaning about mechanics "giving up" push backs for 90$/hr on holidays?

 

[Bob Owens]

----------------
On 4/9/2003 10:44:55 AM KCFlyer wrote:



----------------​

I owe my ass to no one at American Airlines, except maybe the pilot flying the aircraft I am on.  I''m derided because I''m not an airline employee.  But as such, I am not blinded by one side or the other.  Just facing a little reality - I haven''t read anything that guarnatees that it won''t be Chapter 7...only assumptions that it will be Chapter 11 and that the judge will be oh so labor friendly and give them everything they ask for and order that Carty''s country club membership be revoked and AA will emerge as the world beater.   

What do you do if a judge looks at the industry, with two major''s already in bankruptcy, one emerging with almost a billion dollars in debt, the other still operating under chapter 11 with little more than the notion of operating a "low cost unit" within the parent airline, and decides that there has already been enough money tossed into this black hole called the airline industry, and feels that creditors and the industry as a whole would be better off with an instant reduction of system capacity?  

----------------

The fact is you are not a disinterested party, your repeated presence here, as a supposedly disinterested "neutral" party is indicative that you obvuiosly have an interest, and those interests clearly, from your posts, are alligned with the company. So quit with the innocent victim Bull.

If AA went C-11 what would you care? They would still be operating. From a passengers perspective nothing would change, except you might lose all those frequent flyer miles that were bought with your company''s money.So instead of you possibly losing a free trip to Florida you would rather that thousands of workers with families to support immediately lose 25% of our compensation and continue to lose, going up to 40% by 2009.

Your threatening supposition that a judge may decide to liquidate AA to make an example out of us has no merit. The judge has many things to consider when he makes his rulings, making a lesson out of workers is not one of them.
This airline would be entering BK in better shape than either USAIR or UAL.

Right now BAGDAD has fallen. In a few weeks this will be over. Fuel prices should fall. What are we supposed to tell our brothers and sisters who were pulled off the job, at great financial expense to them, when they come back?
"Congratulations, you risked your lives to free the Iraqis and were victorious. I hope you liked the parade we threw in your honor. Oh by the way your reward is that we voted to give away over $130,000 of your income over the next six years because we were scared. I think these soldiers would rather hear that we fought for them like they fought for us instead of allowing the company to Dictate terms and rape our careers.

 

[Hopeful]

by the way AAviator, thanks to AA and my worthless union, 5 holidays were taken away from us. that should make you happy because misery loves company.