Your opinion?

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The argument of our loss of pay and benifits over the years may seem weak to you, but for those who had to live through it, believe me, that was far from the case!

You know.... I was going to come on here and tell you I worked for American Airlines for a decade after 9/11 and lived through the concessionary contract myself.

On retrospect you are absolutely right. I was not topped out so I did not feel the concessions like you did.

I was too busy trying to figure out how to survive on $7 dollars an hour thanks to the Junior Fleet Service program and slogging my way through the 9 year top out once I was upgraded to Fleet Service Clerk. In other words I was subsidizing pay and benefits for my UNION coworkers. They got some kind of perk and I got a B pay scale. The membership did not seem to mind inflicting concessions on others when it suited their purpose but play the victim when it is done to them.

I am not trying to dismiss or invalidate your claims. I am just saying from the perspective of someone working a 10 to 12 dollar an hour factory job, you guys have it pretty good. I doubt that factory worker has much sympathy for your lack of contract or your past concessions when you make just shy of 4 times his wage.

Let me put it another way. Would you feel sorry for someone who received a loss of pay and benefits when they were making 400K a year?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Well, La Li, I go back further than that and have given up quit a bet to insure survival of the company I worked for only to end up with a PBGC check every month due in large part to deregulation, and piss poor management. And my answeer to your question, even though I consider myself a conservative, I feel there are curtain industries that need to be regulated due to the nature of them being critical to our well being, and the security, of our national economy......... And yes, I feel the Airline industry falls into that category.

I thank you for answering my question in a concise and direct way. You see so little of that on this forum.

 

[Insp4]

You know.... I was going to come on here and tell you I worked for American Airlines for a decade after 9/11 and lived through the concessionary contract myself.

On retrospect you are absolutely right. I was not topped out so I did not feel the concessions like you did.

I was too busy trying to figure out how to survive on $7 dollars an hour thanks to the Junior Fleet Service program and slogging my way through the 9 year top out once I was upgraded to Fleet Service Clerk. In other words I was subsidizing pay and benefits for my UNION coworkers. They got some kind of perk and I got a B pay scale. The membership did not seem to mind inflicting concessions on others when it suited their purpose but play the victim when it is done to them.

I am not trying to dismiss or invalidate your claims. I am just saying from the perspective of someone working a 10 to 12 dollar an hour factory job, you guys have it pretty good. I doubt that factory worker has much sympathy for your lack of contract or your past concessions when you make just shy of 4 times his wage.

Let me put it another way. Would you feel sorry for someone who received a loss of pay and benefits when they were making 400K a year?

I hear what you are saying. That's why I feel when Trump's people are on the right track by pushing for more trade schools. Not everyone is cut out to go to college, myself included, although I did put time in the Navy, and learned the basics of the aircraft maintenance trade. After the Navy I fliped burgers and lived at home for two years, while I went to a trade school and got my licenses. I ended up as an Aircraft mechanic for twenty years, and an Inspector for another twenty. Todays AMT is worth every cent he, or she, is making. The responsibility alone is worth it. But the price for that job, along with other Airline jobs, as you know, is high. Working all kinds of odd hours, and weekends, can be hard on marriages! The devorce rate for Airline workers is one of the highest in the country. But than again, I'm preaching to the chior ain't I? ............ And yea, I've delt with two different Unions, and got screwed by both.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I hear what you are saying. That's why I feel when Trump's people are on the right track by pushing for more trade schools. Not everyone is cut out to go to college, myself included, although I did put time in the Navy, and learned the basics of the aircraft maintenance trade.

I am a HUGE believer in apprenticeships. I was lucky that my previous employer (before American Airlines) provided on the job training and covered the cost of trade school. ( http://www.abcokla.org/). One thing I am happy to say that Tulsa offers is many apprenticeship programs. Everything form plumbing to elevator maintenance and repair.

I also attended Tulsa Tech which offers a very reasonably priced A&P program (though that is not the course I took). I only wish more aviation employers were willing to cover the cost of the schooling.

http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-airframe/
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-powerplant/

After the Navy I fliped burgers and lived at home for two years, while I went to a trade school and got my licenses. I ended up as an Aircraft mechanic for twenty years, and an Inspector for another twenty.

You set a goal and achieved it. That is something to be proud of.

Todays AMT is worth every cent he, or she, is making. The responsibility alone is worth it. But the price for that job, along with other Airline jobs, as you know, is high. Working all kinds of odd hours, and weekends, can be hard on marriages! The devorce rate for Airline workers is one of the highest in the country. But than again, I'm preaching to the chior ain't I?

Yes. However, I need reminding of that "price" once in a while.

............ And yea, I've delt with two different Unions, and got screwed by both.

I support the idea of a UNION. However, in practice they are more about playing politics than fulfilling their actual function which is support the membership at the negotiating table.

 

[Insp4]

I am a HUGE believer in apprenticeships. I was lucky that my previous employer (before American Airlines) provided on the job training and covered the cost of trade school. ( http://www.abcokla.org/). One thing I am happy to say that Tulsa offers is many apprenticeship programs. Everything form plumbing to elevator maintenance and repair.

I also attended Tulsa Tech which offers a very reasonably priced A&P program (though that is not the course I took). I only wish more aviation employers were willing to cover the cost of the schooling.

http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-airframe/
http://tulsatech.edu/classes/fulltime/aviation-generals-powerplant/

You set a goal and achieved it. That is something to be proud of.

Yes. However, I need reminding of that "price" once in a while.

I support the idea of a UNION. However, in practice they are more about playing politics than fulfilling their actual function which is support the membership at the negotiating table.

Unfortionatly Unions have become big business in and of themselves, and I have found from past experience, that, as a rule, they are more concerned with their own agenda verses what may be best for the membership they are supposedly paid to represent.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Unfortionatly Unions have become big business in and of themselves, and I have found from past experience, that, as a rule, they are more concerned with their own agenda verses what may be best for the membership they are supposedly paid to represent.

Then why fight to keep them.

Especially the international multi employer UNIONS. These things are a plague.

 

[Zom JFK]

I have been in several unions. There are some good unions out there (the CWA comes to mind). But then there is the twu which is an obscenity to unionism. So much so that I consider my time at American as working non union.

 

[Insp4]

We are so screwed! Is this the generation that is going to control our country in the future?

 

[Dog Wonder]

I'm sure Trump can fix it.

 

[Seatacus]

We are so screwed! Is this the generation that is going to control our country in the future?

canned spaghetti isn't worth opening.

 

[xUT]

Try one of these..

 

[Seatacus]

Try one of these..
View attachment 11921

had one of those on my key chain for years. kept poking me in my leg.

 

[xUT]

had one of those on my key chain for years. kept poking me in my leg.

Yea, that and one of my dog tags.
Damn thing came in handy though.
don't know where I lost them.
Take Care!

 

[xUT]

canned spaghetti isn't worth opening.

If you had a P38, I would be remiss if you didn't open a can of C'Rats back in the day.
Beans and weenies? Ham and "Mother F#####s".

 

[Insp4]

Try one of these..
View attachment 11921

Yea, I've ot one on my key ring right now. along with one of my old dog tags. You know the kind with the little notch in it.