Yes America, you are stupid
- Thread starter Ms Tree
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xUT
Veteran
That's why we increase funding in prisons and cut education. :wacko:
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
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How Dumb Are We? We found out in November, 2008.
Glad you came to your self realization to what we knew all along.
So you grabbed a low hanging fruit from the FAR LEFT USA loathing (and irrelevant) NEWSWEEK (sold for $1) who in turned grabbed a study from the FAR LEFT Annenberg School of Liberal Socialist Leftist Marxist, etc that spews more USA loathing. Color me shocked.
But I digress...
Fat Lie:
This is a crock of crap. The top 13,480 taxpayers in 2008 had a total AGI of $399,968,770,000. The bottom 56% (79,720,511 returns) had an AGI of $1,428,932,207,000. This data is from the IRS.
I was reading an old column of Thomas Sowell's on this very subject. He says basically that liberals love to throw this argument around about a huge income gap. It's meaningless, because it doesn't track who's income is growing and who's is declining over a period of years. For example, one year someone could have sold a house, so that year their income may be way above average. The next year that same person's business may have went under and their income is below average.
The point Sowell was making is that it's not necessarily the same people stuck on the top, or on the bottom. In this country people's circumstances change.
You can add Sen Chuck Schummer to this list of dumb Americans who said, on National TV but no peep from MSM, that there are 3 branches of government: the House; the Senate; and the White House. Or Obama who said that he's been to 57 states and has one more state to go to campaign. I won't be surprised if Obama says that there is one branch of government: himself. He certainly acts like it.
And how stupid must you be not to educate yourself? Class warfare certainly doesn’t help but Europe is the home of class warfare. If kids arent getting educated enough then blame on the government run school system. And if immigrants can speak English then blame it on the Liberals for that as well.
xUT
Veteran
How Dumb Are We? We found out in November, 2008.
Glad you came to your self realization to what we knew all along.
So you grabbed a low hanging fruit from the FAR LEFT USA loathing (and irrelevant) NEWSWEEK (sold for $1) who in turned grabbed a study from the FAR LEFT Annenberg School of Liberal Socialist Leftist Marxist, etc that spews more USA loathing. Color me shocked.
But I digress...
Fat Lie:
This is a crock of crap. The top 13,480 taxpayers in 2008 had a total AGI of $399,968,770,000. The bottom 56% (79,720,511 returns) had an AGI of $1,428,932,207,000. This data is from the IRS.
I was reading an old column of Thomas Sowell's on this very subject. He says basically that liberals love to throw this argument around about a huge income gap. It's meaningless, because it doesn't track who's income is growing and who's is declining over a period of years. For example, one year someone could have sold a house, so that year their income may be way above average. The next year that same person's business may have went under and their income is below average.
The point Sowell was making is that it's not necessarily the same people stuck on the top, or on the bottom. In this country people's circumstances change.
You can add Sen Chuck Schummer to this list of dumb Americans who said, on National TV but no peep from MSM, that there are 3 branches of government: the House; the Senate; and the White House. Or Obama who said that he's been to 57 states and has one more state to go to campaign. I won't be surprised if Obama says that there is one branch of government: himself. He certainly acts like it.
And how stupid must you be not to educate yourself? Class warfare certainly doesn’t help but Europe is the home of class warfare. If kids arent getting educated enough then blame on the government run school system. And if immigrants can speak English then blame it on the Liberals for that as well.
Adjusted Gross Income. Cute...
How about Gross Income vs Gross Income without the federal tax loopholes.
Eh? B)
SparrowHawk
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- Nov 30, 2009
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One of the things that has always made me stop and think whenever I hear about the income disparity between the rich and poor in western nations and the US in particular there is always a disconnect for me.
If we as a nation are so F-ed up then why are their 12 million people living here illegally? Why do immigrants continue to come here and to Western Europe? For the Bratwurst? Pizza? WHY do we have an immigration problem and Libya doesn't for example? Or the Ivory Coast? Honestly I've never heard someone say "Ya know the USA is one F-ed up place I'm taking my family to Kenya for a better life with more freedom, liberty and opportunity!" How come I never hear a phrase similar??
WHY? Answer is in one word!
Opportunity
Take for example a family of four, Mom, Dad, wo Teens and all find a job at minimum wage. Minimum wage x 4 = $30.00 per hour or $1,200/wk and in some areas of the US one can buy a modest home and live OK. OK so the family now has a foothold in the US and the kids go off to school and still work their 40 hours, Dad and Mom aren't stupid and as their English improves so do their wages and pretty soon Dad get's a job paying $12/hr and so on. For this family the American Dream is alive and well. While we may laugh & joke at the size of their modest house which might not be in the best area for them it's manna from Heaven as it has the following.
Electricity
Cold & HOT running Water
Indoor plumbing
Flush Toilet
Roof that doesn't leak
A floor that isn't dirt
A car that is owned and sits in the driveway
See it's not where you start the race it's where you finish the race and the family in the example could very well be the story of any of our parents, grandparents or even ourselves. Opportunity exists here! It's often to bad that those who seize that opportunity are here illegally. But that says more about us then it does them
If we as a nation are so F-ed up then why are their 12 million people living here illegally? Why do immigrants continue to come here and to Western Europe? For the Bratwurst? Pizza? WHY do we have an immigration problem and Libya doesn't for example? Or the Ivory Coast? Honestly I've never heard someone say "Ya know the USA is one F-ed up place I'm taking my family to Kenya for a better life with more freedom, liberty and opportunity!" How come I never hear a phrase similar??
WHY? Answer is in one word!
Opportunity
Take for example a family of four, Mom, Dad, wo Teens and all find a job at minimum wage. Minimum wage x 4 = $30.00 per hour or $1,200/wk and in some areas of the US one can buy a modest home and live OK. OK so the family now has a foothold in the US and the kids go off to school and still work their 40 hours, Dad and Mom aren't stupid and as their English improves so do their wages and pretty soon Dad get's a job paying $12/hr and so on. For this family the American Dream is alive and well. While we may laugh & joke at the size of their modest house which might not be in the best area for them it's manna from Heaven as it has the following.
Electricity
Cold & HOT running Water
Indoor plumbing
Flush Toilet
Roof that doesn't leak
A floor that isn't dirt
A car that is owned and sits in the driveway
See it's not where you start the race it's where you finish the race and the family in the example could very well be the story of any of our parents, grandparents or even ourselves. Opportunity exists here! It's often to bad that those who seize that opportunity are here illegally. But that says more about us then it does them
dapoes
Veteran
- May 17, 2008
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Very well said.
In the US, the only limitation you have to succeed is the person in your head. And no matter how hard life has become, you still have an opportunity. As long as you want it bad enough. Case in point Chris Gardner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Gardner
There is those that want, and find a way. And then there's those that want it given to them. Look how well that turned out for countries like Greece, and the UK as shown by today's demonstrations. When you have a society that is dependent off the gov teet, when that teet dries up they cry foul.
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson
Funny you mention this.....I'm sure that absolutely,positively there is no connection between this and NEA?
During all the blood letting over Wisconsin, I heard some 2/3 of the 8th graders of that state basically can't read. Duh.
xUT
Veteran
Exactly my point. Looks like it didnt hurt the bottom 56% after all.
You make this to easy!
Next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You didn't make a point or answer the question. (as usual)
The chart does not show gross income before taxes.
(All figures are estimates based on samples—money amounts are in thousands of dollars except as indicated)
:wacko:
SparrowHawk
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- Nov 30, 2009
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I'm not sure the figures you seek are available. Virtually everything we get in the way of information from the IRS is based upon the Adjusted Gross Income or AGI figures.
I'm also confused as to what you think the Gross Income numbers will show? If your point is that the so called rich get more deductions you may want to stick with the AGI figures as when you get into low/Mid income ranges the percentage of deductions/credits is usually higher.
There are 2 glaring & classic examples of what I mean and I'm not talking about the relative merits of these deductions, I just don't believe in social engineering via the tax code.
1. Enacted and later expanded during the Nixon years was the EITC or Earned Income Tax Credit for the working poor with children. This redistribution of wealth is the largest one I know of. It is possible for a single mom with 2 kids earning about $13,000 to file a tax return and receive right around $5200.00 dollars.
2. The home mortgage deduction is yet another example. Some would argue that this deduction is one of the underlying structural causes of the Mortgage crisis that damn near threw us into a depression.
If you have no Federal Income tax you have no Federal Programs and all of the social engineering and associated costs are placed more closely to the electorate and the states can decide how benevolent their citizens choose to be.
SparrowHawk
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Now there is some hard evidence.
Source please...
I recall reading something similar as well. However I think it was in reference to the MKE schools only.
Either which way, there is a growing body of evidence that suggests that the biggest single impediment to learning is the NEA and its actions, some of which are well documented both in print and TV.
Now you can't lay all of the blame at the NEA's feet as there is quite a bit left to go around. The NEA is a Labor Union pure and simple. By law they have a duty to fairly and zealously represent what they feel is their best interests regardless if little Billy can spell C-A-T or not. This is not a Want, Need, Desire thing, it's the law and if the NEA acts in a manner that it's members don't like they can be sued by the members under the Duty of Fair Representation clause.
These so called rules that gave us the RLA, NLRB and a host of other boards and laws were created and passed by none other then the Democrats during the Great Depression. So I have to chuckle a bit when I see the amount of money funneled through Labor to the Democrats who were the ones who took away a lot of their rights regarding strikes.
xUT
Veteran
That is why we should have a flat tax. Make $1 pay 10 cents. No loopholes, no discriminatory tax brackets.
Buy a house , great! but no breaks. Pay as you go is my mantra. Problem is, the companies in Ameriastan
off shore 'headquarters' to avoid the little taxes that they should pay.
Now there is some hard evidence.
Source please...
I heard....you can find it...your company.
OP
Ms Tree
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- Jul 13, 2010
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So long as all income is counted as income. No tax shelters, no hiding profits with losses and all the other chicanery. I think the biggest problem you will find with this idea is that the rich won't go for it. People with the income of Mr Buffet like paying less in taxes than people who make substantially less than he does.
