Wright Amendment

[swflyer]

When I worked at DFW, Fort Worth was upset because they felt that the city of Dallas backed out of the deal , while they upheld their end of the agreement and closed the airport in Fort Worth.

[post="271689"][/post]​

😀 So to get back at Dallas, Ft. Worth opened Alliance Airport, allowing a new cargo hub to be built, which absolutely helps the North Texas economy by stealing traffic away from DFW. 😀

Also, please remember that the Greater Southwest location is in the footprint of DFW. What isn't is now American's headquarters.

Not judging, just posting.

 

[eolesen]

😀 So to get back at Dallas, Ft. Worth opened Alliance Airport, allowing a new cargo hub to be built, which absolutely helps the North Texas economy by stealing traffic away from DFW. 😀

[post="271740"][/post]​

AFW's cargo volume is somewhere between 30% and 50% of what's handled at DFW. I believe FedEx, even though they've got a hub at AFW, also handles more cargo at DFW.

AFW has done lots for the North Texas economy -- 15 years ago, there was nothing in a 10 mile radius of AFW. The Santa Fe (Now BNSF) Railroad worked with Perot to build an intermodal freight yard at the same time the airport was being built. That created a perfect solution for distribution and manufacturing -- almost 100 square miles of vacant land, with immediate access by air, rail, and truck.

Now, ######, JC Penney, and a couple dozen other large corporations have built distribution centers and manufacturing facilities in Haslet and Westlake.

That's all tax revenue which could have gone to other parts of the country, and there's no way that could have happened at DFW because it was already landlocked.

Also, please remember that the Greater Southwest location is in the footprint of DFW. What isn't is now American's headquarters.

[post="271740"][/post]​

Yes, it sits more or less on top of where the three main runways intersected. My office overlooks what used to be the terminal. The photo below faces west/northwest. AA's HDQ is at the bottom of the photo, and the older oak trees in the center of the photo lined what used to be the entry road. There's still a small brick building out there, and some sections of concrete out there from the ramp if you go out there and look hard enough...

 

[swflyer]

Former ModerAAtor (me too, BTW),

Thanks for the facts about GSW and Alliance. There's still a pic, somewhere on the net, that shows that last bit of runway.

I used extra smiley faces to indicate I was just poking at aafsc's comment about Ft. Worth being put out that Dallas didn't uphold the agreement. IMHO, it's pretty easy to find instances where the 'agreement' wasn't upheld, so it's pretty useless and time consuming to keep re-hashing the same old "well, they did ...." stuff (But it made for some good fun at PlaneBusiness during the Legend time).

My name is a pretty good indication of where my thinking is in this matter. I'll try to keep it over there. Again, just poking at the inanity.

 

[FA Mikey]

Former ModerAAtor (me too, BTW),

Thanks for the facts about GSW and Alliance. There's still a pic, somewhere on the net, that shows that last bit of runway.

[post="271780"][/post]​

Is that the concrete you see off the highway at the interchange of 360 and 183?

 

[swflyer]

Is that the concrete you see off the highway at the interchange of 360 and 183?

[post="271783"][/post]​

I think it's to the west of the interchange. Here's a site with the story. The poster was obviously a fan of GSW.

GSW - Ft. Worth's Airport

BTW, MSN search didn't find this but Google did. 😀

 

[I'mRayFlyMe]

Here's another good article re the Wright Amendment, this one from the Wall Street Journal:

Wall St. Journal
REVIEW & OUTLOOK

Free Love
May 19, 2005

Given how often Congress has tried to bail out failing airlines, it'd be nice if it felt as strongly about giving healthy carriers access to a freer market. It could start by repealing an arcane law that serves no purpose other than to restrict low-cost Southwest Airlines from competing against its more traditional rivals.

The law in question limits Southwest to running flights to and from its headquarters in Love Field, in Dallas, to seven states. This anticompetitive statute was jammed into legislation back in 1979 by then-Democratic House Speaker (and Fort Worth Congressman) Jim Wright. Contrary to some claims, the law was not intended to "help" Southwest by graciously allowing it a few destinations outside Texas, but was a naked attempt to protect nearby Dallas-Forth Worth airport from competition after numerous lawsuits to shut down Southwest and rival Love Field had failed.

And it's worked like a charm. American Airlines, based out of DFW, has become an uncontested giant in the market. It flies some 850 departures a day from DFW. (Southwest, in comparison, flies closer to 115 out of Love). American is so dominant that other airlines have scaled back Dallas operations; Delta quit using DFW as a hub in January, canceling more than 225 daily flights.

Airline passengers suffer from this holding pattern, with higher fares and fewer choices. The Wright Amendment means Southwest is currently able to carry passengers from Love to only 14 cities and cannot route flights from its 45 other cities, such as Pittsburgh or Seattle, into Dallas. Other commercial carriers at Love are held to the same seven-state restrictions. On flights in which Southwest competes with DFW carriers out of the Dallas area, Love Field fares are an average of 15% cheaper.

Difficult as it is to argue against market fairness, American (which lost $761 million last year) and its proxies are giving it a stellar try. A favorite warning is that allowing more competition in the already fragile airline industry would do irreparable "damage" to DFW airport, American, and the local economy. But it is not Congress's job to support one airline over another. If DFW (currently one of the five busiest airports in the world) and American offer travelers what they need, they'll both succeed. If they can't, then jobs and business will migrate to more efficient competitors. Many large cities sport more than one large airport, and the competition has only benefited local economies and consumers.

An even stranger argument is that if Southwest wants to expand, it should have to do so at DFW -- which has excess capacity. But that would force Southwest to invest in a separate costly operation across town, rather than expand from its headquarters of 34 years. As for the contention that Southwest's expansion would "strain" Love Field, the city of Dallas years ago decided to cap the number of gates at Love to the 32 that already exist.

Everyone laments the dismal state of the airline industry, but the reality is that the government has contributed as much as anyone to its problems. Antitrust limits on mergers, obstacles to foreign investment, high taxes, labor rules and other policies have prevented the kind of competition that would produce a healthier industry. The Love field limits illustrate once again that when government attempts to protect one competitor at the expense of another, it ends up hurting everyone. We'd have thought Congress would be relieved to see an airline asking not for a loan guarantee or a pension giveaway, but simply the right to roll up its sleeves and compete.

 

[aafsc]

OK. If the wright amendment is repealed then AA puts 100 flights into DAL overnight, then nobody should #### about it.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

OK. If the wright amendment is repealed then AA puts 100 flights into DAL overnight, then nobody should #### about it.

Well, I can think of a few folks who might ##### about it.

Mainly, those folks who own American stock.

Remember what happened the last time American came over to Love Field, guns blazing, 14 RTs a day between Dallas and Austin on MD80s with First Class and assigned seats and quadruple AAdvantage miles?

I remember what happened. Even with the State Govt contract fare to Austin American managed to reduce Southwest's DAL-AUS market share by a paltry 10%.

I don't think now would be any different. Especially since Southwest is fortunate enough to be in pretty decent financial shape and if they wanted to...every route AA flew in and out of Love Field, Southwest could bracket their flights and charge twelve dollars each way.

So do I really think American wants to sacrifice what the have over at DFW...to dismantle their premier hub.....to chase after the O&D traffioc Southwest can generate on maybe 40 or 50 trips a day? No, not really.

And that's really what you might be looking at in terms of real flights.....maybe 50 more per day. Southwest isn't going to cut out the Texas intrastate stuff to fly to Long Island or Norfolk from Love Field.

If anything, you'll probably see Southwest running flights to their current destinations.....ABQ, ELP, MSY.....and tacking on a leg and doing PHX, LAX, LAS, or Florida as a one stop.

Why would American worry about competing with a bunch of one stops on a cheap, tacky carrier that doesn't even assign seats? Sheesh.

As far as 100 flights a day by AA into Love instantaneously...my question is where are you going to put them?

American is not renowned for making real efficient use of gates. I would bet that they average maybe 5 or 6 trips per day per gate, excluding multiple Eagle flights at a gate.

If that is so.....100 flights is going to require 20 gates. Southwest doesn't even have 20 gates at Love Field right now. I don't think the entire airport has 20 operational gates right now, albeit I understand it could expand to 32 or so.

If American was really smart....they'd lobby for a modification to Wright but not a repeal. They've said that Southwest ought to move stuff to DFW....but in truth, the LAST thing American really wants or needs is Southwest to set up shop and compete there.

American isn;t a bad airline and it has nonstops to everywhere. People will pay a premium for a nonstop. So lift the thru-and-transfer ticketing restrictions out of Love Field. That could placate the folks hollering for better fares while keeping Southwest from really getting itself in to the better yielding passenger.

Because if this thing plays out and Southwest does get WAS thrown out completely....and that's not outside the realm of possibility....you will see them going nonstop DAL-a lot of places and the premium AA could extract for nonstop service will dry up.

Just a few thoughts. This is interesting, eh?

 

[Hopeful]

If American was really smart....they'd lobby for a modification to Wright but not a repeal. They've said that Southwest ought to move stuff to DFW....but in truth, the LAST thing American really wants or needs is Southwest to set up shop and compete there.

[post="271889"][/post]​

And maybe the reason SWA wants the WRIGHT ammendment repealed is because they know how costly it will be to come in guns a blazing to DFW.
Southwest has had a successful business model since its inception They have stayed aways form the "major" airports. If they were to go to DFW, they know it won't be the usual easy as 1-2-3.

 

[aafsc]

Well, I can think of a few folks who might ##### about it.

Mainly, those folks who own American stock.

Remember what happened the last time American came over to Love Field, guns blazing, 14 RTs a day between Dallas and Austin on MD80s with First Class and assigned seats and quadruple AAdvantage miles?

I remember what happened. Even with the State Govt contract fare to Austin American managed to reduce Southwest's DAL-AUS market share by a paltry 10%.

I don't think now would be any different. Especially since Southwest is fortunate enough to be in pretty decent financial shape and if they wanted to...every route AA flew in and out of Love Field, Southwest could bracket their flights and charge twelve dollars each way.

So do I really think American wants to sacrifice what the have over at DFW...to dismantle their premier hub.....to chase after the O&D traffioc Southwest can generate on maybe 40 or 50 trips a day? No, not really.

And that's really what you might be looking at in terms of real flights.....maybe 50 more per day. Southwest isn't going to cut out the Texas intrastate stuff to fly to Long Island or Norfolk from Love Field.

If anything, you'll probably see Southwest running flights to their current destinations.....ABQ, ELP, MSY.....and tacking on a leg and doing PHX, LAX, LAS, or Florida as a one stop.

Why would American worry about competing with a bunch of one stops on a cheap, tacky carrier that doesn't even assign seats? Sheesh.

As far as 100 flights a day by AA into Love instantaneously...my question is where are you going to put them?

American is not renowned for making real efficient use of gates. I would bet that they average maybe 5 or 6 trips per day per gate, excluding multiple Eagle flights at a gate.

If that is so.....100 flights is going to require 20 gates. Southwest doesn't even have 20 gates at Love Field right now. I don't think the entire airport has 20 operational gates right now, albeit I understand it could expand to 32 or so.

If American was really smart....they'd lobby for a modification to Wright but not a repeal. They've said that Southwest ought to move stuff to DFW....but in truth, the LAST thing American really wants or needs is Southwest to set up shop and compete there.

American isn;t a bad airline and it has nonstops to everywhere. People will pay a premium for a nonstop. So lift the thru-and-transfer ticketing restrictions out of Love Field. That could placate the folks hollering for better fares while keeping Southwest from really getting itself in to the better yielding passenger.

Because if this thing plays out and Southwest does get WAS thrown out completely....and that's not outside the realm of possibility....you will see them going nonstop DAL-a lot of places and the premium AA could extract for nonstop service will dry up.

Just a few thoughts. This is interesting, eh?

[post="271889"][/post]​

AA could get more use out of their gates if they wanted to. When I worked in DFW, I turned 8 airplanes a day to ORD in an 8 hour shift on the same gate. We will just have to wit and see what happens with this and what Southwest ultimately does.

 

[Hopeful]

November 13, 2004
Low-cost carrier Southwest Airlines on Friday ruled out starting operations at to Dallas/Fort Worth Airport, saying it would not be a good business move to challenge American Airlines at its main hub.

"We have no intention of going to DFW," Southwest Chief Executive Gary Kelly told a business meeting.

Southwest, which has its main operations at Love Field in Dallas, a few miles from DFW airport had been looking at taking over gates at the airport as Delta Air Lines winds down its operations there.

Southwest has restrictions on where it can fly at Love Field, and flying at DFW would have given the carrier the chance to connect Dallas with more cities in the United States.

Kelly said that DFW is like a "fortress hub" for American, the world's largest airline.

With American and its affiliated regional jet carrier operating about 700 flights a day at DFW, it would take too much effort for Southwest to start at DFW and also keep operations at Love Field viable, Kelly said.

"It just does not fit into our business model," Kelly said. "We are basically in one airport and we don't go into the hub airport."

Delta has had the No 2 position at DFW airport, one of the largest in the country. Financially strapped Delta has said it will reduce its daily flights at the airport by about 90 percent in the coming months from 254 to 21.

Several struggling carriers such as American, Delta, Northwest and others have slashed costs through items such as employee concessions as they struggle with record-high jet fuel prices and try to compete with low-cost carriers such as Southwest.

"Over the next several years, every carrier will have to be a low-cost carrier," Southwest's Kelly said.

(Reuters)

 

[mga707]

I think it's to the west of the interchange.

The remaining bit of ACF/GSW runway concrete is just to the east of the interchange. I'm pretty sure it's what Mikey has noticed, as it's pretty obvious.
The short dead-end spur of FAA Road just east of 183 was once the north entrance to the terminal roadway.
I've walked over the grassy field that was once Amon Carter Field/Greater Southwest International Airport!
🙂

 

[AirplaneFan]

OK. If the wright amendment is repealed then AA puts 100 flights into DAL overnight, then nobody should #### about it.

[post="271873"][/post]​

I don't think that AA has the gates (3?) to put 100 flights in per day. And where are they going to go? And where will the planes come from? So AA would immediately pull down flights elsewhere in the country just to put a lot of flights into Love.

AA has this misguided notion that Dallas passengers will be loyal to it over SW. Of course, past experiences tell us otherwise. AA would get killed at Love by SW. SW would start with 4 nonstops daily between DAL and LAX, PHL, BWI, MDW, PHX, LAS, MCO, TPA. $79 one-way.

2 non-stops daily between DAL and MHT, PVD, BDL, OAK, RDU, BNA, SEA.

Would AA match those flights and those prices? For how long?

 

[Hopeful]

I don't think that AA has the gates (3?) to put 100 flights in per day.  And where are they going to go?  And where will the planes come from?  So AA would immediately pull down flights elsewhere in the country just to put a lot of flights into Love. 

AA has this misguided notion that Dallas passengers will be loyal to it over SW.  Of course, past experiences tell us otherwise.  AA would get killed at Love by SW.  SW would start with 4 nonstops daily between DAL and LAX, PHL, BWI, MDW, PHX, LAS, MCO, TPA.  $79 one-way. 

2 non-stops daily between DAL and MHT, PVD, BDL, OAK, RDU, BNA, SEA. 

Would AA match those flights and those prices?  For how long?

[post="271951"][/post]​

Keep in mind that DFW is what it is today because of the Wright ammendment. Billions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ has gone into DFW because of it. This was money from Dallas-Ft. Worth as well as AA. And you could include what Delta put into Dallas for years.

So, if the ammendment was to be repealed, the AA has a right to sue for more gates at Love.

 

[kirkpatrick]

GSW - Ft. Worth's Airport

Thanks for posting that. For anyone who might be interested, that site contains reams of information on many abandoned and little-known airports throughout the country. I've had a great time this morning looking at old pictures of former airports here on Long Island, such as Mitchel Field and Roosevelt Field.

MK