WOLFOWITZ to QUIT by 6/30 !

[delldude]

But again, I have absolutely no sympathy for someone who drives an urban assault vehicle as a daily commuter and whines about the price of gas. AS far as I am concerned, they have noone to blame but themselves. Now...excuse me while I go hug a tree.

Take the taxes away,it isn't that awful....but we must fund the entitlements you know...

 

[777 fixer]

Actually, the Prius was and is still unique enough for any "premium", although I feel I got a pretty good deal on both mine. The reason - I traded a Chrysler 300M for my Prius. The Prius has more front seat headroom, just as much front seat legroom, MORE rear seat legroom, and the hatchback design gives it a versatility that you don't find any many other cars. Granted, I can't haul a sofa in the back, but I have no trouble toting around two labrador retrievers, or some smaller furniture, or even a lawnmower. Add to that I have spent $0 on any maintenance outside of oil changes, and it's all the better.

I know I was filling the tank of my 300M weekly, and I fill my Prius once every other week, with half the gas the 300M took. People say the battery will cost when it has to be replaced, but it's got a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty on it. I do plan on keeping the car...well, I may give it to my daughter in another 3 years. All I know is that without changing my driving habits one bit, I am now getting 45 mpg on average. If I drive with a lighter foot and anticipate stoplights better (which I have done in an experiment) I had no problem getting a 50mpg average on a tank of gas. I also get a $100 a year gift card from work for my "ozone reduction" efforts, plus there are more and more places in my area where alternative fuel vehicles are getting a close in parking spot.

Lets compare the Prius to three fuel-efficent non hybrid cars.

First the Yaris with a base price of $11,150. Compare that to a base price on the Prius of $22,175. That's a price difference of $11025. With an average yearly fuel cost of $1293 for the Yaris and $846 that's a difference of $447. Add your $100 gift card that's a yearly savings of $547. It would take you twenty years to recover your investment.

Second the Saturn Ion 2. With a base price of $12890 thats a $9285 difference between the Ion 2 and the Prius. With an anual fuel cost of $1721 thats a difference of $975. It would take you nine and a half years to recover the difference.

Finally the Chevy Aveo. With a base price of $12575 it's $9600 cheaper than the Prius. With a yearly fuel cost of $1604 the difference between the two is $758. That means it will take you twelve and a half years to make it worth your while.

Don't take this as an attack on hybrids. I would get one myself if the price were right. IMO the technology needs to mature a bit more and the cost needs to come down before I will buy one.

Hopefully I got the numbers right. I did all this after woking a night shift so I'm a little punch drunk right now.

 

[KCFlyer]

Lets compare the Prius to three fuel-efficent non hybrid cars.

First the Yaris with a base price of $11,150. Compare that to a base price on the Prius of $22,175. That's a price difference of $11025. With an average yearly fuel cost of $1293 for the Yaris and $846 that's a difference of $447. Add your $100 gift card that's a yearly savings of $547. It would take you twenty years to recover your investment.

Second the Saturn Ion 2. With a base price of $12890 thats a $9285 difference between the Ion 2 and the Prius. With an anual fuel cost of $1721 thats a difference of $975. It would take you nine and a half years to recover the difference.

Finally the Chevy Aveo. With a base price of $12575 it's $9600 cheaper than the Prius. With a yearly fuel cost of $1604 the difference between the two is $758. That means it will take you twelve and a half years to make it worth your while.

Don't take this as an attack on hybrids. I would get one myself if the price were right. IMO the technology needs to mature a bit more and the cost needs to come down before I will buy one.

Hopefully I got the numbers right. I did all this after woking a night shift so I'm a little punch drunk right now.

YOu are quite right, except the only thing those three cars have in common with a Prius is 4 wheels. One of the reasons the Prius "base price" is higher is because even a "stripped" Prius has more on it that a base of any of those other cars. They don't have the interior room of a Prius, and they don't have the flexibility of a Prius. Because none of those vehicles are exactly what a Prius is. Sure...if all you care about is getting the most mpg's out of a car, and don't care about the comfort of rear seat passengers, and don't care that the trunk space is minimal, then you definitely shouldn't consider a hybrid.

And you really can't compare a Camry to a Camry hybrid, since the Camry hybrid is pretty much a fully loaded model...well above the "base price" of a "normal" Camry.

As for the technology...one thing that Japanese companies do is use their own country as a test bed for their products. Japan had the Walkman for years before they ever made it the the US. Japan had the Prius for years before they started exporting them. All I know is that I have two Prius (Prii???) which are into their third year of service. Other than oil changes - the maintenance has been $0. The hybrid system has not given one hint of a problem.

But...I find it odd that so many feel that those of us who bought a hybrid made a "poor choice" because there are lesser options out there...yet they have no trouble justifying $50,000 SUV as their daily commuter. I mean...if it's just to get you to and from work, isn't a Yaris just as good as a Hummer?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

isn't a Yaris just as good as a Hummer?

I use my Hummer to run over stupid people.

 

[local 12 proud]

I use my Hummer to run over stupid people.

That would consist of mass vehicular homicide rate.

 

[777 fixer]

YOu are quite right, except the only thing those three cars have in common with a Prius is 4 wheels. One of the reasons the Prius "base price" is higher is because even a "stripped" Prius has more on it that a base of any of those other cars. They don't have the interior room of a Prius, and they don't have the flexibility of a Prius. Because none of those vehicles are exactly what a Prius is. Sure...if all you care about is getting the most mpg's out of a car, and don't care about the comfort of rear seat passengers, and don't care that the trunk space is minimal, then you definitely shouldn't consider a hybrid.

I've driven the Saturn ION 2 and it seems to have plenty of room. In the case of the Yaris even if you add $3000 in options thats still a price difference of $8025. It will still take you fourteen years to recoup your investment. When it comes right down to its not worth it for me to sign up for an additional $8000-10000 in debt becasue the Prius has a bit more trunk space. Especailly when it will take me a long time to get a return on my investment.

As for the technology...one thing that Japanese companies do is use their own country as a test bed for their products. Japan had the Walkman for years before they ever made it the the US. Japan had the Prius for years before they started exporting them. All I know is that I have two Prius (Prii???) which are into their third year of service. Other than oil changes - the maintenance has been $0. The hybrid system has not given one hint of a problem.

Two things. One if the technology is as mature as you think it is why is there such a price difference between hybrids and non-hybrids. It tells me that they are either gouging people or that the technology still costs quite a bit of money. Second, there is a big difference between driving conditions in Japan and those of USA. Especailly in places like the upper midwest and northeast where you get extreme cold and they cover the roads with salt four to six months out of the year. Or in the southwest where you get extreme heat.

But...I find it odd that so many feel that those of us who bought a hybrid made a "poor choice" because there are lesser options out there...yet they have no trouble justifying $50,000 SUV as their daily commuter. I mean...if it's just to get you to and from work, isn't a Yaris just as good as a Hummer?

Well obviously I'm not one of those people. I have however come across them, i.e. family member. I'll agree with you on that. It's totally perplexing for people who say a hybrid is not worth the money then go out and buy an SUV. Even if you buy one of the cheaper ones it will either cost you about the same as a hybrid or even more. And of course cost of ownership is a LOT more.

 

[local 12 proud]

When it comes right down to its not worth it for me to sign up for an additional $8000-10000 in debt becasue the Prius has a bit more trunk space.

Save your money 777 until the hybrids can offer you something beneficial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY1YjVnZjGU

KC probably uses one sheet of arse wipe to 'save a tree' like the crow!

 

[KCFlyer]

I've driven the Saturn ION 2 and it seems to have plenty of room. In the case of the Yaris even if you add $3000 in options thats still a price difference of $8025. It will still take you fourteen years to recoup your investment.

Can I carry a six foot ladder in an Ion or a Yaris? I can (and have) in my Prius. There are 3 inches LESS legroom for the rear seat passenger of a Yaris...I'm 6'4" and have plenty of legroom in the back of the Prius. I'm sure the Yaris and Ion are very nice cars, but they aren't the same size or type car as a Prius.

Two things. One if the technology is as mature as you think it is why is there such a price difference between hybrids and non-hybrids. It tells me that they are either gouging people or that the technology still costs quite a bit of money. Second, there is a big difference between driving conditions in Japan and those of USA. Especailly in places like the upper midwest and northeast where you get extreme cold and they cover the roads with salt four to six months out of the year. Or in the southwest where you get extreme heat.

Ah...here in the heart of America, we get subzero temps, and salt is on the roads for a good part of the winter...car goes just fine thru it all. I live on a cul-de-sac that isn't plowed until much later in the day, yet I had no problems getting around on unplowed roads. And the beauty of the heart of America is that we also get extreme heat during the summer months. Again - not a problem. FWIW, the Prius AC and Heat units are electric, so they do not require the engine to be running all the time to operate them.

KC probably uses one sheet of arse wipe to 'save a tree' like the crow!

Nope...it takes more than one sheet for me. But you know, instead of guzzing gas that we get from countries that hate us, I do my part to reduce our reliance on that gas. I guess that's why you see so few "support our troops" ribbons on hybrids, but you see them all over SUV's...

But what gets to me is that when my kid is facing the same energy shortages that your kids and the kids of Expedition driving soccer moms will be facing in there middle age years, she won't get any kind of credit for my doing my part when gas was "cheap". I think Ann Coulter may have had it right...the planet was made for man to rape it...so we need to get to raping it as much as we can. Go out and buy that Hummer.

I use my Hummer to run over stupid people.

I use my Prius to sneak up behind stupid people who drove a Hummer to the grocery store and run over them with my Prius...you'd be amazed at how quiet they are when they are running on electricity.

 

[delldude]

Sounds like a venture into Yupville....

 

[local 12 proud]

I think Ann Coulter may have had it right...the planet was made for man to rape it...so we need to get to raping it as much as we can. Go out and buy that Hummer.

Never heard that quote, but your fooling yourself and pissing money away thinking your little prius is making a difference.

http://www.blacksmithinstitute.org/top10/worst35d.html

 

[local 12 proud]

Sounds like a venture into Yupville....

Could've swore I seen a prius get nailed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar0pPT3O6Sk

 

[KCFlyer]

Sounds like a venture into Yupville....

A venture into yupville is when Biff and Buffy had one child and suddenly had to buy an 8 passenger SUV to carry all it's earthly belongings whereever it went. A really consciencious yuppie would have put a helmet on junior so that he/she would be protected when mommy swerved to avoid a cat running across the road and rolled the Suburban.

Could've swore I seen a prius get nailed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar0pPT3O6Sk

Hmmm... I just noticed a lot of overconfident folks in SUV's wreaking havoc on a street.

Never heard that quote, but your fooling yourself and pissing money away thinking your little prius is making a difference. laugh.gif

Here you go

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it! It's yours.'"
-- Ann Coulter, Hannity & Colmes,June 20, 2001

As far as pissing my money away...How much does it cost you to drive your SUV for 2 weeks? Mine costs me $25. 500 miles worth. It's a real shame that Americans have so little regard for their environment. We're all gonna wake up one day and wonder when America became a fourth world country.

 

[local 12 proud]

As far as pissing my money away...How much does it cost you to drive your SUV for 2 weeks?

Hate to burst your bubble but I don't now, nor have I ever owned an SUV, Have no need for one. I drive a '99' Ford Ranger 2.5L 4cyl. with 150,000 miles and still running strong. I do all the maintenance so not much overhead there, Have'nt checked what kind of mileage she gets lately but it cost about $30.00 a week for all the running I do. BTW... I relieved the bank of ownership when she had about 40,000 miles on the odometer.

My Pride and Toy is a restored '67' Chevelle Malibu with a 327 V8, set up with an Eddlebrock intake, Holley four barrel, and a Hurst 4-speed. :wub: well you get the general idea...She does'nt get very good gas mileage cause that girl just loves to grab my foot. :bleh: However I only bring her out on weekends to play, and show off!

It's a real shame that Americans have so little regard for their environment. We're all gonna wake up one day and wonder when America became a fourth world country.

No we're all gonna be dead someday just like the ones before us and the ones after us. This life is temporary and we're all just passing thru, This planet will be around long after mankind has passed the way of the Dinosaurs and theres not a damn thing you can do about it.

 

[KCFlyer]

This life is temporary and we're all just passing thru, This planet will be around long after mankind has passed the way of the Dinosaurs and theres not a damn thing you can do about it.

YOur kids will love that attitude.

 

[local 12 proud]

YOur kids will love that attitude.

My 'kids' are all grown and were raised to place their faith in the LORD, not what mere mortals proclaim.

You may not like my attitude, and quite frankly I could care less but were all along for the ride and our destiny (mankind) as a whole was preordained.

You can fool yourself into thinking that your making a difference all you want it does'nt change the reality.

"Drive your prius and hug a tree, life is but a vapor and all is vanity"