WN Mechanics seek mediation

[B737 driver]

I agree that enough is enough and that at some point you just have to let the membership decide for themselves. I believe that up until recently there was not adequate language on paper to vote on but supposedly the company has presented, finally, a full language proposal that is being reviewed. Having known our new National Director for many years I don't believe he considers the membership a "cash cow" and has nothing but the best interests of the membership and our profession as his priority. All the members of represented airlines are AMFA, not the leadership alone.

When I said cash cow I met that AMFA could not pay it's bills on Alaska Airlines alone if you had a strike like they did at Northwest, and I don't think they would choose that option again !

 

[swamt]

I agree that enough is enough and that at some point you just have to let the membership decide for themselves. I believe that up until recently there was not adequate language on paper to vote on but supposedly the company has presented, finally, a full language proposal that is being reviewed. Having known our new National Director for many years I don't believe he considers the membership a "cash cow" and has nothing but the best interests of the membership and our profession as his priority. All the members of represented airlines are AMFA, not the leadership alone.

Yes and we will all see what that language consist of at the end of July. Also agree about our ND.

 

[B737 driver]

I just wish we had attorneys on staff that have a fixed salary, alot of our hard earned dues money goes to the law firm, that AMFA grew out of, everytime there is a delay, or a lawsuit more billable hours, the longer this goes on, the more money the law firm makes, something to thing about!

 

[swamt]

I just wish we had attorneys on staff that have a fixed salary, alot of our hard earned dues money goes to the law firm, that AMFA grew out of, everytime there is a delay, or a lawsuit more billable hours, the longer this goes on, the more money the law firm makes, something to thing about!

You think we have large billable hours you should see what the Pilots pay out in legal fees. You should see what the co. pays out in legal fees. Yes with billable hours, of course attorneys make more money the longer things drag out, that's part of life. Do you want an attorney to just cave in so we don't spend so much money on him? I didn't think so. We could be like the TWU and agree and cave into everything the company wants. Or we can be like the IAM and after every contract is voted down or no and order another vote until it passes for the co.? Paying for ongoing legal representation is just part of business. And when you are well represented, then yes, those more than likely will be the largest bills being paid, again you should see what the Pilots legal bills are and they are well represented as we are.

 

[B737 driver]

You think we have large billable hours you should see what the Pilots pay out in legal fees. You should see what the co. pays out in legal fees. Yes with billable hours, of course attorneys make more money the longer things drag out, that's part of life. Do you want an attorney to just cave in so we don't spend so much money on him? I didn't think so. We could be like the TWU and agree and cave into everything the company wants. Or we can be like the IAM and after every contract is voted down or no and order another vote until it passes for the co.? Paying for ongoing legal representation is just part of business. And when you are well represented, then yes, those more than likely will be the largest bills being paid, again you should see what the Pilots legal bills are and they are well represented as we are.

My point is most of our dues goes to legal fees leaving very little for the locals, you say it is a cost of doing business, well the pilots have had two contract T/A s the first one they voted down the last one they voted in, we haven't had one to consider in 5 years; if you think that 5 years of legal fees and not having one proposal to consider is a good investment, I am glad you are not running the company!

 

[swamt]

My point is most of our dues goes to legal fees leaving very little for the locals, you say it is a cost of doing business, well the pilots have had two contract T/A s the first one they voted down the last one they voted in, we haven't had one to consider in 5 years; if you think that 5 years of legal fees and not having one proposal to consider is a good investment, I am glad you are not running the company!

Ok. I understand your as well as others frustrations with nothing to see or vote on for 5 years. Yes the Pilots had 2 offers within their 5 years of waiting, and I am sure we will have at least 2 if not 3. It very well may be this fall to be our first to look at. The reason the NC has not allowed anything to come out yet is because of the extreme concessionary must haves by the co. would just be a waste if time and just more and more delays (approx 30 days to do road shows and voting done) if not a little more. Just to bring back a solid NO vote from the membership. You really need to understand the frustrations from the guys that have been here for all the past contracts where the company has constantly refused to pay retro and they have been getting away with dragging these negotiations out for several past contracts. We only have had one retro in past contracts of recent. The co. has lied and said they are illegal per tax codes rules and regs, which is a bunch of BS as we have received it before. Secondly, the co. is trying way over exagerate what they really have to have in order to stay afloat when in all reality they have made record profits and still continue to do so under our current contracts. I would not have a problem if the entire membership was educated on what will really take place if this current offer is to take place. The concessions of the must haves will hit this membership like a ton of bricks 5-10 years from now but will start in the very near future. If LOA #1 and 2 go away without being renegotiated into the new contract they will die and go away and out of our contract, now what will that mean? The headcount protections will go away for many positions in Day line relief, Eve line relief, Day and Eve sheetmetal shop, Day and eve structure, day and eve struct support shop, hnagr ron insp, grave struct insp, etc... Also if Loa 2 goes away you will see eves struct support shop go away (I was told this by 3 of the sups that work down the hill in the same building) If LOA #1 goes away then the protections for the 4th line as well as the 3 heavy structors lines goes away. Look for yourself at page 98, para 2, it states, and I quote; "Southwest Airlines Mechanics shall continue to perform the existing Three (3) Heavy lines that are currently being conducted at Southwest Airlines facilities." Unquote. This protection will go away if the LOA 1 goes away, now do you see the point? There is also something in there protecting the 4th line for sending work to Elsovador.

Please everyone get familiar with these LOA's 1 and 2 on pages 97-101 of our current contract. We all know the company is looking to push all maint to graves over night maint they have verified this, if this language goes away they will do it. Sure, they say they will keep everyone that is currently here at Southwest, but they do not say where or on what shift or days off you will have when they revamp this maint schedule they want. It's not always about the money guys, it's also equally about the rules and regs and quality of life issues. The QOL issues will in fact change dramatically with this current offer, it just won't hit anyone until later down the road. Please show up on JUly 20th to the membership meeting at the hotel ask the NC about ALL these issues and ask what would the company be able to do if we lose these languages.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok. I understand your as well as others frustrations with nothing to see or vote on for 5 years. Yes the Pilots had 2 offers within their 5 years of waiting, and I am sure we will have at least 2 if not 3. It very well may be this fall to be our first to look at. The reason the NC has not allowed anything to come out yet is because of the extreme concessionary must haves by the co. would just be a waste if time and just more and more delays (approx 30 days to do road shows and voting done) if not a little more. Just to bring back a solid NO vote from the membership. You really need to understand the frustrations from the guys that have been here for all the past contracts where the company has constantly refused to pay retro and they have been getting away with dragging these negotiations out for several past contracts. We only have had one retro in past contracts of recent. The co. has lied and said they are illegal per tax codes rules and regs, which is a bunch of BS as we have received it before. Secondly, the co. is trying way over exagerate what they really have to have in order to stay afloat when in all reality they have made record profits and still continue to do so under our current contracts. I would not have a problem if the entire membership was educated on what will really take place if this current offer is to take place. The concessions of the must haves will hit this membership like a ton of bricks 5-10 years from now but will start in the very near future. If LOA #1 and 2 go away without being renegotiated into the new contract they will die and go away and out of our contract, now what will that mean? The headcount protections will go away for many positions in Day line relief, Eve line relief, Day and Eve sheetmetal shop, Day and eve structure, day and eve struct support shop, hnagr ron insp, grave struct insp, etc... Also if Loa 2 goes away you will see eves struct support shop go away (I was told this by 3 of the sups that work down the hill in the same building) If LOA #1 goes away then the protections for the 4th line as well as the 3 heavy structors lines goes away. Look for yourself at page 98, para 2, it states, and I quote; "Southwest Airlines Mechanics shall continue to perform the existing Three (3) Heavy lines that are currently being conducted at Southwest Airlines facilities." Unquote. This protection will go away if the LOA 1 goes away, now do you see the point? There is also something in there protecting the 4th line for sending work to Elsovador.

Please everyone get familiar with these LOA's 1 and 2 on pages 97-101 of our current contract. We all know the company is looking to push all maint to graves over night maint they have verified this, if this language goes away they will do it. Sure, they say they will keep everyone that is currently here at Southwest, but they do not say where or on what shift or days off you will have when they revamp this maint schedule they want. It's not always about the money guys, it's also equally about the rules and regs and quality of life issues. The QOL issues will in fact change dramatically with this current offer, it just won't hit anyone until later down the road. Please show up on JUly 20th to the membership meeting at the hotel ask the NC about ALL these issues and ask what would the company be able to do if we lose these languages.

I have been here for 23 years, we as a group had the chance when the company wanted to do a contract extension, keeping our current language, but AFMA wanted to do full blown negotiations, which opens a whole can of worms, now it appears the negotiating committee a nice group of guys is really outgunned by the company, I feel sorry for them, before Gary took over for Herb, we should've gotten LOA 1 & LOA 2 in the contract back in 2009! In reality I think the only thing you can hope for

Ok. I understand your as well as others frustrations with nothing to see or vote on for 5 years. Yes the Pilots had 2 offers within their 5 years of waiting, and I am sure we will have at least 2 if not 3. It very well may be this fall to be our first to look at. The reason the NC has not allowed anything to come out yet is because of the extreme concessionary must haves by the co. would just be a waste if time and just more and more delays (approx 30 days to do road shows and voting done) if not a little more. Just to bring back a solid NO vote from the membership. You really need to understand the frustrations from the guys that have been here for all the past contracts where the company has constantly refused to pay retro and they have been getting away with dragging these negotiations out for several past contracts. We only have had one retro in past contracts of recent. The co. has lied and said they are illegal per tax codes rules and regs, which is a bunch of BS as we have received it before. Secondly, the co. is trying way over exagerate what they really have to have in order to stay afloat when in all reality they have made record profits and still continue to do so under our current contracts. I would not have a problem if the entire membership was educated on what will really take place if this current offer is to take place. The concessions of the must haves will hit this membership like a ton of bricks 5-10 years from now but will start in the very near future. If LOA #1 and 2 go away without being renegotiated into the new contract they will die and go away and out of our contract, now what will that mean? The headcount protections will go away for many positions in Day line relief, Eve line relief, Day and Eve sheetmetal shop, Day and eve structure, day and eve struct support shop, hnagr ron insp, grave struct insp, etc... Also if Loa 2 goes away you will see eves struct support shop go away (I was told this by 3 of the sups that work down the hill in the same building) If LOA #1 goes away then the protections for the 4th line as well as the 3 heavy structors lines goes away. Look for yourself at page 98, para 2, it states, and I quote; "Southwest Airlines Mechanics shall continue to perform the existing Three (3) Heavy lines that are currently being conducted at Southwest Airlines facilities." Unquote. This protection will go away if the LOA 1 goes away, now do you see the point? There is also something in there protecting the 4th line for sending work to Elsovador.

Please everyone get familiar with these LOA's 1 and 2 on pages 97-101 of our current contract. We all know the company is looking to push all maint to graves over night maint they have verified this, if this language goes away they will do it. Sure, they say they will keep everyone that is currently here at Southwest, but they do not say where or on what shift or days off you will have when they revamp this maint schedule they want. It's not always about the money guys, it's also equally about the rules and regs and quality of life issues. The QOL issues will in fact change dramatically with this current offer, it just won't hit anyone until later down the road. Please show up on JUly 20th to the membership meeting at the hotel ask the NC about ALL these issues and ask what would the company be able to do if we lose these languages.

My point is most of our dues goes to legal fees leaving very little for the locals, you say it is a cost of doing business, well the pilots have had two contract T/A s the first one they voted down the last one they voted in, we haven't had one to consider in 5 years; if you think that 5 years of legal fees and not having one proposal to consider is a good investment, I am glad you are not running the company!

 

[B737 driver]

I have been here for 23 years, we as a group had the chance when the company wanted to do a contract extension, keeping our current language, but AFMA wanted to do full blown negotiations, which opens a whole can of worms, now it appears the negotiating committee a nice group of guys is really outgunned by the company, I feel sorry for them, before Gary took over for Herb, we should've gotten LOA 1 & LOA 2 in the contract back in 2009! In reality I think the only thing you can hope for

Like I said the only thing in reality is you can probably get in arbitration is to maintain current head count and maybe grow the group some, or protect the current positions that you have. Sadly if you look at AMFA track record, we lost the arbitration on the sick policy, because AMFA was not really prepared, When we lost the Arbitration of the supertugs AMFA took our hard earned dues money to a tune of $150,000 dollars to file a Federal lawsuit, you know how many judges have overturned an Arbitrator's decision, I will give you a hint "0!"! Like I said the negotiating committee is outgunned by the company, heck the survey was so bad Brett will not even release the results until after we get a T/ A voted in! If AMFA wants to survive long term they better eventually produce something to vote on, or you won't be able to contain people's anger, especially when they see other groups move on, and get more money!

 

[swamt]

I do agree to both postings. I too think your right about the memberships anger coming to a head. And your also correct that if something is not done before end of year we will see it explode. I am not happy with AMFA's track record with arbitrations for grievances either, and yes there are grumblings stating about replacing them if something very positive does not happen soon. Now speaking of track record's the one they actually win is the insp backfill, is the membership really willing to let that go? I don't know. Another item the co. is looking for the membership to vote on is for us (the membership) to vote to pull the WB suit that was filed by an individual no longer employed, is that even legal? That is not up to us, that is totally up to the individual that filed it. That is totally unprofessional for the co. to be asking for that. Bottom line is, this company is being completely unfair and unprofessional in their contract negotiations with us. I am still waiting to hear how the union feels about this Med-Arb. process the co. is wanting to go to, have you heard how they feel?

 

[B737 driver]

I do agree to both postings. I too think your right about the memberships anger coming to a head. And your also correct that if something is not done before end of year we will see it explode. I am not happy with AMFA's track record with arbitrations for grievances either, and yes there are grumblings stating about replacing them if something very positive does not happen soon. Now speaking of track record's the one they actually win is the insp backfill, is the membership really willing to let that go? I don't know. Another item the co. is looking for the membership to vote on is for us (the membership) to vote to pull the WB suit that was filed by an individual no longer employed, is that even legal? That is not up to us, that is totally up to the individual that filed it. That is totally unprofessional for the co. to be asking for that. Bottom line is, this company is being completely unfair and unprofessional in their contract negotiations with us. I am still waiting to hear how the union feels about this Med-Arb. process the co. is wanting to go to, have you heard how they feel?

At this point from what I hear a lot of mechanics have lost total faith in the N. C . and AMFA leadership, I am willing to take a chance to put this to bed, we shall see !

 

[Go Figure]

Everything is not Shangra Li in the Amfa world??? I am shocked. First time Amfa has had to go in for full section 6 openers with SWA. No more extensions?????? Obviously getting their butts handed to them the whole time criticizing other unions and negotiations. swamt might want to clean up his own back yard and get his house in order. Good luck to the techs there. They are gonna need it.!!

 

[B737 driver]

Everything is not Shangra Li in the Amfa world??? I am shocked. First time Amfa has had to go in for full section 6 openers with SWA. No more extensions?????? Obviously getting their butts handed to them the whole time criticizing other unions and negotiations. swamt might want to clean up his own back yard and get his house in order. Good luck to the techs there. They are gonna need it.!!

Tell me about it, just wanted to put to perspective not everyone here is believing everything our union says, and they need to understand that!

 

[Go Figure]

Tell me about it, just wanted to put to perspective not everyone here is believing everything our union says, and they need to understand that!

 

[Go Figure]

Would think that membership would wake up to the legal advice of Seham. Nothing will happen til Federal lawsuits filed from both sides will be litigated some time in 2018. Surprised with all his legal expertise he has not been at table in negotiations. Hiding in background collecting his millions he sucked out of union. He did great job with US Air pilots!!!! Lots talk- no action. I wish the hard workin techs at SWA all good. Maybe swamt can tell us his game plan??????

 

[B737 driver]

Would think that membership would wake up to the legal advice of Seham. Nothing will happen til Federal lawsuits filed from both sides will be litigated some time in 2018. Surprised with all his legal expertise he has not been at table in negotiations. Hiding in background collecting his millions he sucked out of union. He did great job with US Air pilots!!!! Lots talk- no action. I wish the hard workin techs at SWA all good. Maybe swamt can tell us his game plan??????

That's why I finally got on here, tired of all our hard earned dues money going to legal fees and nothing to show for it!