WN Mechanics seek mediation

[WeAAsles]

After reading this update I would like to retract my previous statement that the co. looks like it is coming to agreements.
Now is the April 17-21 actually set for Mechanics talks? The last sentence says they are going into the Article 2 (scope) language but no reference that they will be focusing on Mechanics.
Just read this morning that SWA and the teamsters just came to a T/A for the material specialist. The way this new regime is acting and performing in nego's I see no new agreement for mechanics this year yet again. Oh and BTW, the co. is giving them a 20% bonus. They really need to work on the numbers they have put out for us years ago as we get into our 5th year. All my numbers have increased yet again as the co. takes longer and longer to get this agreement done. The longer it takes them, the more it cost them. That bonus number just keeps climbing and climbing the longer they put this off.

By your own words something I guess you can't figure out? Your Union stinks to high heaven.

 

[WeAAsles]

Here SWAMT do yourself a favor.

https://www.twu.org/join/contact-an-organizer/

 

[Birdman]

Here SWAMT do yourself a favor.

https://www.twu.org/join/contact-an-organizer/

I'm very respectful of most posters on the forums, including you, but I will have to say from 23 years first hand experience with the TWU and now with almost 4 years with AMFA that your very sadly mistaken. Our new national director, which is a former AA mechanic as well, is doing everything possible to distinguish our craft union from the former union where half the members actively sought change. There is absolutely no interest at Southwest to join any other union and especially one with such a dismal record of representing our craft and class.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'm very respectful of most posters on the forums, including you, but I will have to say from 23 years first hand experience with the TWU and now with almost 4 years with AMFA that your very sadly mistaken. Our new national director, which is a former AA mechanic as well, is doing everything possible to distinguish our craft union from the former union where half the members actively sought change. There is absolutely no interest at Southwest to join any other union and especially one with such a dismal record of representing our craft and class.

I think it's great that you have confidence in your new National Director and actually really do hope that works out for you. But is there a timeframe where you have to say the idea behind the Union itself isn't working and SWA Management just doesn't take you seriously?

Four and a half years now and SWAMT thinks it will run into next year which will make it 5 1/2 years then. If he's right when do you as a collective group say maybe we need to hit the breaks? I've heard AMTRAK holds the record at 8 years without a deal?

What if we come back to this conversation and it's up to that 8 year mark? Will you still feel the same if the rest of the industry is under deals and you're still spinning your wheels?

Respectfully curious?

 

[Birdman]

There are no unions in this industry that have a corner market on expedient contract renewals including the SWA flight attendants, TWU represented. SW management has evolved into a posture of being very stubborn and unrealistic in their "must have" demands. Many of us have just accepted that our current agreement is better than what they're offering and will wait it out. Again, a union change is not the answer but a change in the company's approach will breathe new life into negotiations.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW the fact that all the Legacy Carrier survivors went through BK in the last decade and lowered their costs against SWA is what's holding you back. That and the now losses on their fuel hedging program that eventually will wind itself down.

Now that everyone else is much closer in line with each other should eventually see you to a deal if you're not being unreasonable in Managements eyes? I've said it before and I'll say it again. SWA is just not going to give you a deal until AA settles their deals with the Mechanics here. That's what you're waiting on. If that does happen soon as rumor has it will then you will begin to see your talks moving along again. But not until then.

The only reason the Ramp at SWA has a deal now is because they made a very bad move out of sync on the West coast that put their Negotiators in a no win take it or leave it scenario to bring those members back and then the members squeaked the deal through.

In BASE wages we're now above them here and we're going to go up even a little more too. And the benefits will also wind up being fairly comparable as well.

I suspect when you look at Airline Financials in the next 2 years or so you're going to see that in Labor cost comparisons between the 4 Airlines accounting for size and revenue generation none are really going to have a huge hand over the other. (The oddball out may be AA Pilots being short of the pack)

 

[WeAAsles]

There are no unions in this industry that have a corner market on expedient contract renewals including the SWA flight attendants, TWU represented. SW management has evolved into a posture of being very stubborn and unrealistic in their "must have" demands. Many of us have just accepted that our current agreement is better than what they're offering and will wait it out. Again, a union change is not the answer but a change in the company's approach will breathe new life into negotiations.

Birdman I think you should look at this link particularly the SWA part. I think this is why SWAMT made a full on frontal assault against me on the AA thread the other day that admittedly brought out some ire in me to whack him since I really have said quite often I wish you guys nothing but the best?

People don't like to read the truth and since it's difficult to attack the facts they usually tend to turn on the ones who gave it to them or believe it instead. Cest La Vie I guess?

http://marketrealist.com/2017/03/be...labor-costs/?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=feed

 

[WeAAsles]

There are no unions in this industry that have a corner market on expedient contract renewals including the SWA flight attendants, TWU represented. SW management has evolved into a posture of being very stubborn and unrealistic in their "must have" demands. Many of us have just accepted that our current agreement is better than what they're offering and will wait it out. Again, a union change is not the answer but a change in the company's approach will breathe new life into negotiations.

BTW a change in "their" approach is just another way of saying that you want them to capitulate to "your" demands.

Again they're just not going to do that until they see what they're up against once AA locks in. UAL was the first piece of the puzzle to get you to the goal line and now AA has to carry the ball to the next step.

 

[Birdman]

I don't think AA is holding up our negotiations in the least. They're at $47 and change and we're at $43 and change with a superior contract that AA will never match. SW is perfectly willing to pony up the cash to sell a contract but unwilling to compromise, so far, on language. When we started losing quality members of management like Jim Sokol, many say because of upper management's changing and hostile attitude toward our workforce, I think we all realized this will take more time than usual.

 

[WeAAsles]

I don't think AA is holding up our negotiations in the least. They're at $47 and change and we're at $43 and change with a superior contract that AA will never match. SW is perfectly willing to pony up the cash to sell a contract but unwilling to compromise, so far, on language. When we started losing quality members of management like Jim Sokol, many say because of upper management's changing and hostile attitude toward our workforce, I think we all realized this will take more time than usual.

AA guys only just got up to that $47 and change and are going to go higher because of that IBT deal over at UAL.

The superiority of your contract has to continue to be a questionable conversation if you only have 2400 members who are enjoying it. What good is your contract if I was trying to get a job over there and couldn't because there just aren't enough jobs to go around?

But I guess you could be right if I was able to find one of those Golden Tickets in the Willy Wonka Chocolate Bar?

I'll personally wait and see what the Association and AA Management come up with though before I make that call if you continue to have greener grass on your side?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW if between 75 to 80% of your Company's Maintenance expense goes toward outsourced work and AA only has 35% going towards that does that concern you in any way shape or form?

Don't you think that's just a little too much and kind of a well IGM so what do I care attitude if you are in the house at SWA?

Did you have an application on file at SWA for years before you got in?

 

[swamt]

I'm very respectful of most posters on the forums, including you, but I will have to say from 23 years first hand experience with the TWU and now with almost 4 years with AMFA that your very sadly mistaken. Our new national director, which is a former AA mechanic as well, is doing everything possible to distinguish our craft union from the former union where half the members actively sought change. There is absolutely no interest at Southwest to join any other union and especially one with such a dismal record of representing our craft and class.

I don't think AA is holding up our negotiations in the least. They're at $47 and change and we're at $43 and change with a superior contract that AA will never match. SW is perfectly willing to pony up the cash to sell a contract but unwilling to compromise, so far, on language. When we started losing quality members of management like Jim Sokol, many say because of upper management's changing and hostile attitude toward our workforce, I think we all realized this will take more time than usual.

Well said sir. Good to see others confirm what I have been saying. Agree 100% about not changing unions. Teamsters tried twice (don't know if you were here for both tries from teamsters) and the TWU even tried I believe it was after the first teamster try and all 3 times they were all sent packing extremely quickly. Funny you mention Jim. When we heard he was leaving we knew what was coming down the pike. Sokol saw the writing on the wall. I have even heard from a very good source that this new regime was laying out what they wanted Sokol to do so chose to retire and refused to do it to the mechanics. Timco got a fine President for their company, and I wish Jim the best.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well said sir. Good to see others confirm what I have been saying. Agree 100% about not changing unions. Teamsters tried twice (don't know if you were here for both tries from teamsters) and the TWU even tried I believe it was after the first teamster try and all 3 times they were all sent packing extremely quickly. Funny you mention Jim. When we heard he was leaving we knew what was coming down the pike. Sokol saw the writing on the wall. I have even heard from a very good source that this new regime was laying out what they wanted Sokol to do so chose to retire and refused to do it to the mechanics. Timco got a fine President for their company, and I wish Jim the best.

Ever think about going with the IBEW? 4 and a half years is over 1600 days without a new contract. You're not getting any younger in case you haven't realized.

 

[Birdman]

BTW if between 75 to 80% of your Company's Maintenance expense goes toward outsourced work and AA only has 35% going towards that does that concern you in any way shape or form?

I think the MBA's in companies should have the right to run the business as they choose and the free market, and BOD's, will dictate whether they remain employed. Outsoucing falls within the guidelines of running a company and unions can only dictate outsourcing guidelines through contract language if the company will agree to it. IMO, a unions job is to bargain in good faith for better pay and benefits, stressing to its members the importance of being a productive and disciplined workforce. The latter is called job protection.
you think that's just a little too much and kind of a well IGM so what do I care attitude if you are in the house at SWA?
How much is out of my control. BTW, one of the main sticking points in negotiations is contract language that could possibly adversely affect the number of mechanics the company will employ in the future.

you have an application on file at SWA for years before you got in?
No, but this is just an explanation that someone might find beneficial. I watched for mechanic job postings here:
https://www.southwest.com/html/about-southwest/careers/positions.html
and applied every time a mechanic posting appeared. It's always a very short window of opportunity as job postings often come and go within days. They have so many applicants they probably won't call you if you simply have an application "on file". That's what I did, twice. Another tip is if you know someone working here have them put in a good word for you when you apply.

 

[WeAAsles]

I think the MBA's in companies should have the right to run the business as they choose and the free market, and BOD's, will dictate whether they remain employed. Outsoucing falls within the guidelines of running a company and unions can only dictate outsourcing guidelines through contract language if the company will agree to it. IMO, a unions job is to bargain in good faith for better pay and benefits, stressing to its members the importance of being a productive and disciplined workforce. The latter is called job protection.
you think that's just a little too much and kind of a well IGM so what do I care attitude if you are in the house at SWA?
How much is out of my control. BTW, one of the main sticking points in negotiations is contract language that could possibly adversely affect the number of mechanics the company will employ in the future.

you have an application on file at SWA for years before you got in?
No, but this is just an explanation that someone might find beneficial. I watched for mechanic job postings here:
https://www.southwest.com/html/about-southwest/careers/positions.html
and applied every time a mechanic posting appeared. It's always a very short window of opportunity as job postings often come and go within days. They have so many applicants they probably won't call you if you simply have an application "on file". That's what I did, twice. Another tip is if you know someone working here have them put in a good word for you when you apply.

Thank you man. Great responses. To a degree I agree with you on the Market comment. But the market always wants to lower our costs to gain more understandably for them. I think we should as a collective unit push the market at least a little to gain better than what they want.

And if you guys continue to hold firm on jobs for the future you've absolutely gained my admiration.

I know too many that could give a flying RA about that.

It should all be about the "balance"