WN Mechanics seek mediation

[WeAAsles]

Hello?????? Hello? Anyone here? Wow it's like a huge empty echo chamber in here. Does anyone ever come here?

Oh that's right. There's not enough people left to come here.

Cest La Vie.

 

[swamt]

Have you guys seen this memo out by our VP of Labor Relations? Last time he put a memo out he stated we would have something to vote on--didn't happen. Now he claims there will be new changes to the original verbal offer made back in Aug of 2016, and changes to other articles still open so that AMFA will receive a full offer on the June 20th meetings set for this month for us to have a T/A to vote on. Who is this guy kidding? What makes him think that the company will move so far as to have a possible T/A by 6-20-17? No way. Not gonna happen. All their numbers from the previous numbers are null and void as it is now a year later from that offer. Also, does this guy not understand that if it is not 100% full retro, rather they want to call it retro or a bonus like the pilots is up to them, but, it will equal full retro just like the pilots got even for past SWA pilots and their families, if not full retro in the offer the NC will not bring it out to the membership. I do not see this happening by June 20th. Their still not moving on scope. And he says we will have a T/A to vote on, C'mon man...

 

[Birdman]

McCrady is pretty slick with his explanation about having presented a "comprehensive" proposal. "You bet we have" is followed by the word "confusion" and then "our NC will present full language on the Company’s offer". It's been AMFA's position all along that there is nothing on paper to present for a vote so I guess the company finally gets that. I'm still not holding out any hope that the company will stray from their original proposal until we give them a flat out "NO". They also must know, as you said, that their Aug 2016 economic proposal is obsolete and to even entertain a proposal would require substantial increases.
Everyone should also realize that vendors are lining up and writhing in anticipation that we will give up the farm in order for them to increase their share of Southwests maintenance. The cozy relationship our upper management has with them was witnessed first hand at the recent Maintenance Competition in Orlando.

 

[swamt]

Slick is a good description. Your topic on "confusion" is correct. At least he finally admits that his side (the company) is misleading, confusing and straight up lying to the membership. You are probably right on about the fact they will still offer the same offer until we vote no on it, but I honestly do not think the NC would let that same offer float out to the members for a vote, that would not be good for them to do at this point and time. That 2016 (Aug) economical proposal is obsolete as you better described. This Aug will be yet another year of retro we deserve. A higher step on the % ladder is required with all these record upon record quarters and years of profits just proves they can easily operate at substantial cost savings and producing substantial profits under the exact same contract language, so, as time goes on it is just proven that they can operate just fine with the current language we have. The basic 3% raise is unacceptable now days. they need to be more like 4-6% and that's not being greedy at all, it's wanting to share in the gains and profits of the MOST profitable airline in the world, that's all. Funny you mention the coziness with other maint facility Presidents at the competition (I too have seen the photos). I will go out on a limb (not a very big limb-lol) and say we will see SWA planes at TIMCO in the near future, hehehe. Question for ya, do you even think the co. will move enough for our NC to even think about an offer coming to the membership for a vote? That's yet another "C'mon man!!!" Hope the membership still thinks like we do Birdman.

 

[Birdman]

I'll never forget how the company claimed paid rest was "unsustainable" in times of record profit. Any whining about "Times and competition have changed" has fallen on deaf ears.
I agree, Timco/Haeco would LUV to include Southwest as a primary vendor and no doubt Jim Sokol would be involved.
Honestly I believe the company NC, having all but admitted their comprehensive proposal lacked written language, will foist an agreement long on words and short on movement. Their seeming lack of urgency year after year exemplifies how little they have to gain from their current proposals, which gives credibility to you comment "they can operate just fine with the current language we have." Having said that thought I'm puzzled that Gary Kelly hasn't demanded his team bring this to an end.

 

[swamt]

Their seeming lack of urgency year after year exemplifies how little they have to gain from their current proposals, which gives credibility to you comment "they can operate just fine with the current language we have." Having said that thought I'm puzzled that Gary Kelly hasn't demanded his team bring this to an end.

I agree 100%. GK should step in and tell them to get it done, hell, we are the last group to get something done. It really is time to move on. What I do like to see is the patients and unity the NC and the membership is showing. The companies NC was just hoping and praying we would jump on the first offer out there since they dragged this out on purpose in order to get the membership to jump at first offer. We must show them that we are prepared to wait as long as it will take to stand unified for a well deserving contract in these record times of profits. Like I said from the get go, the longer they take the more it will cost them in retro cost. Now they are 5 years into retro (that's if we were to vote on something and it be activated by Aug 15th 2017). Now the "snap up" is another year of added % at DOS. (not saying their 14% was ok, as it is not, just saying another year needs to be adjusted) By the time they get serious they will be at or near 20% for the "snap up" part. Then the typical 4-6% for the remaining 5 years. No more outsourcing they have enough allowed by our past unions. Protect all employees we have now and in future. Keep "C" checks and all heavy maint (4 lines) and try to expand 5 or 6 lines without giving up other work. That would just be realigning not adding lines of maintenance. We also need to keep all our LOA's in the contract as they are tied to maintenance lines and headcounts. Medical caps, vac, down lines etc... There are more as you already know, but the co. needs to get a clue before any kind of T/A can or will be brought out. This VP of LR is crazy to be putting out that we should have a possible T/A after these next meetings. Unless the co. has been given a time table by GK, but I will not expect anything more then as you said, simply mouth movements and "0" actual movements by the company. Let's also see what sort of excuses they will come up with this time when they continue NOT to move one iota. Same ole song and dance, lies and misinformation from the company is all that the membership expects. Hel they've been doing it for more than 5 years now as we started nego's earlier than the amendable date.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'll never forget how the company claimed paid rest was "unsustainable" in times of record profit. Any whining about "Times and competition have changed" has fallen on deaf ears.
I agree, Timco/Haeco would LUV to include Southwest as a primary vendor and no doubt Jim Sokol would be involved.
Honestly I believe the company NC, having all but admitted their comprehensive proposal lacked written language, will foist an agreement long on words and short on movement. Their seeming lack of urgency year after year exemplifies how little they have to gain from their current proposals, which gives credibility to you comment "they can operate just fine with the current language we have." Having said that thought I'm puzzled that Gary Kelly hasn't demanded his team bring this to an end.

Birdman I want to thank YOU for not sticking your nose in at Airlines you don't work for and pretend to act like you do.

Apparently you're an honorable man unlike another poster in this thread.

Good luck to you and your workgroup Sir.

 

[Birdman]

http://www.amfanational.org/?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=616587

Same old story, just different scheduled negotiation session. Not sure why any mediator would waste any more time witnessing a company so bent on NOT negotiating. It certainly seems the company has an agenda and will not be satisfied until we either give in or ask for a 30 day cooling off period. I feel they have prepared for the later and would welcome the chance to rid themselves of the inconvenience of having to do any heavy or intermediate maintenance. IMO the company is showing nothing but contempt for the mechanics at Southwest Airlines, something I haven't felt since my employment at AA. Very sad.

 

[grmach1]

The bold truth is we are going nowhere! They may be running the nwa playbook but we won't make the same mistake. Also GK knows full well what is going on. Those clowns told him they could get us to sign for x amount of dollars. That's why they won't bend, their job is on the line.

 

[swamt]

They left compensation as is even though we are in for another year. C'mon man.
And now they are even asking for more than in 2016. Glad to NOT hear that this is coming out for a vote, it would just be a waste of time. Which is what the company wants for more and more delays. Another reason to extend another month or longer, even though they know it will get voted down in flames. These have got to be the worst arbitrators I have ever watched in mediated negotiations. Company still not moving one iota and in fact asking for more. Pathetic.
Birdman, I would personally like to apologize for the treatment from our company feeling the same as from your previous employer, but, it has been turning this way for some time now.

Read the entire update here.

 

[grmach1]

I would have to agree that the "Mediators" are pathetic to say the least.

 

[Birdman]

Looking back I can remember how envious we were that another airlines CEO would say "Your employees come first". Sadly Southwests management, from Mr. Kelly down, has become so intoxicated with success that normal negotiations protocol has be reduced to "Our way or the highway". I'll have to repeat my previous observation in regard to voting. The pilots and flight attendants both rejected previous t/a's. The publicity generated was priceless and resulted in adequate movement by the company to finally settle. IMO, it's time to overwhelmingly reject their proposal in order to advance.

 

[sendmeupacrowsfoot]

Most of the 10+ year mechanics at my station are willing to stick it out another five years to get a good contract. We also strive everyday to be 100% compliant.
That is after all, what Southwest management wants.

 

[swamt]

Looking back I can remember how envious we were that another airlines CEO would say "Your employees come first". Sadly Southwests management, from Mr. Kelly down, has become so intoxicated with success that normal negotiations protocol has be reduced to "Our way or the highway". I'll have to repeat my previous observation in regard to voting. The pilots and flight attendants both rejected previous t/a's. The publicity generated was priceless and resulted in adequate movement by the company to finally settle. IMO, it's time to overwhelmingly reject their proposal in order to advance.

I don't see the NC bringing this POS out for a vote. But yes if they were forced to we need to overwhelmingly shoot it down. But our NC should really do that for us as a vote would just delay another month and a half and we already know what the final outcome will be, a NO vote. I believe the update said the NC was preparing a counterproposal that would look more like something we might vote on so I guess we will see where that goes. I like your thoughts. And I believe 90-95% of the membership is on the same page as the antics continue from the company. If Sokol were in there we would be done by now.

 

[swamt]

Should we take up a collection and see who wins the pot on what this McCrady will predict for the next session? So far he's been wrong every time. Maybe he should be sitting in there and making the decisions, and moving so we can get a T/A out for a vote? With no movement what-so-ever from the company just tells all of us they are not serious about getting a contract with us, if they were, then gosh dammit get someone in there that can make decisions, action, movement. AMFA has moved enough and probably even too much at this point. AMFA is the ONLY one that shown movement, until the company moves we will just keep our current contract. They will really get serious and rush to a new contract when it starts to affect the maint of the MAX birds. Like the other guy said, we can wait another 5 years if need be, company is doing just fine with current contract in place and it will just help our side to show that by the company taking their sweet time to get it done, and that is fact...