Wn And Aa Say Us/hp Merger A Good Thing

[EyeInTheSky]

I was pointing out that AA did not add planes as you inferred.

[post="270864"][/post]​

No, they just parked TWA's planes and employees.

 

[aafsc]

No, they just parked TWA's planes and employees.

[post="270865"][/post]​

Wrong. The 74-F100s,13-767s, the MD-11s. the DC-10s. MD-90s, the ex-RenoAir Super 80s, and 727s belonged to AA. The 40 or so other super 80s parked belonged to TWA, along with the permantly parked ex-TWA 757s (11) 767s (all) and 717s (all). There are about 17,000 ex-TWA people laid off from AA. And there are about 21,000 origional AA people laid off.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Wrong. The 74-F100s,13-767s, the MD-11s. the DC-10s. MD-90s, the ex-RenoAir Super 80s, and 727s belonged to AA. The 40 or so other super 80s parked belonged to TWA, along with the permantly parked ex-TWA 757s (11) 767s (all) and 717s (all). There are about 17,000 ex-TWA people laid off from AA. And there are about 21,000 origional AA people laid off.

[post="270866"][/post]​

As far as I am concerned, there are 17,000 people in that equation of yours who should not have been "laid off." Point blank, you guys at AA can't handle more experienced airline personnel coming in your ranks or is that rAAnks.

 

[FA Mikey]

As far as I am concerned, there are 17,000 people in that equation of yours who should not have been "laid off." Point blank, you guys at AA can't handle more experienced airline personnel coming in your ranks or is that rAAnks.

[post="270888"][/post]​

We can handle any number of people coming in to our ranks. But like alll of us did when we started here, bottom of the seniority list

 

[Winglet]

We can handle any number of people coming in to our ranks. But like alll of us did when we started here, bottom of the seniority list

[post="270927"][/post]​

The point is that the TWAs capacity was not needed, just like U's capacity isn't needed now. Serially bankrupt airlines and airlines that have had TWO YEARS to reorganize and can't, should just GO AWAY, instead of killing the rest of the industry with the court's and government help. The brilliant and devious airline wrecker, Mr. Carty, bought TWA just at a time when the industry was collapsing. TWAs capacity should have been allowed to go to the desert instead of AA sinking billions into it, then parking equivilent capacity and creating a firestorm of bad blood in the employee ranks.

 

[eolesen]

As far as I am concerned, there are 17,000 people in that equation of yours who should not have been "laid off." Point blank, you guys at AA can't handle more experienced airline personnel coming in your ranks or is that rAAnks.

[post="270888"][/post]​

Notice the DOH spin? Now go look in the HP forum.... If this comes across as a DOH integration, I'd be shocked.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Notice the DOH spin? Now go look in the HP forum.... If this comes across as a DOH integration, I'd be shocked.

[post="270971"][/post]​

AFA by-laws state DOH, ALPA has a "career expectations" clause, I don't know about the IAM or CWA. You're right, I don't think you'll see DOH in every group. This is for the unions to iron out.

 

[KCFlyer]

This is for the unions to iron out.

[post="270972"][/post]​

Ya know...this seems to be the one itty bitty detail that most folks are leaving out of their discussions about how great this merger will be.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Having stayed out of the integration argument up to this point, here's my perspective. Unless everyone is complaining or no one is complaining after the integration is accomplished, it was probably unfair. As long as some think it was eminently fair and others think they got screwed, it was unfairly done.

Jim

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Having stayed out of the integration argument up to this point, here's my perspective. Unless everyone is complaining or no one is complaining after the integration is accomplished, it was probably unfair. As long as some think it was eminently fair and others think they got screwed, it was unfairly done.

Jim

[post="270975"][/post]​

Jim, it's always something isn't it? :blink: Everyone needs to just sit back and wait.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

The point is that the TWAs capacity was not needed, just like U's capacity isn't needed now. Serially bankrupt airlines and airlines that have had TWO YEARS to reorganize and can't, should just GO AWAY, instead of killing the rest of the industry with the court's and government help. The brilliant and devious airline wrecker, Mr. Carty, bought TWA just at a time when the industry was collapsing. TWAs capacity should have been allowed to go to the desert instead of AA sinking billions into it, then parking equivilent capacity and creating a firestorm of bad blood in the employee ranks.

[post="270931"][/post]​

I find it quite amazing that AA employees among others are so upset by this merger. It just goes to show how stupid people get when they drink too much Kool Aide. If US Airways or America West want to merge, let em'. Do you honestly think that's going to put your job as a pilot for American Airlines on the line? No. Its, petty, pathetic, and downright low to wish people to lose their jobs so you can move up faster. People like you are no better (you're worse in my book) than these a-hole management weenies that come in take 30 million and blow the clambake. Sorry. Looks like you'll have to get your airline voodoo doll out of its US Airways colors this company isn't dying anytime soon.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Everyone needs to just sit back and wait.

[post="270976"][/post]​

I've just got this sneakin' s'pecion that that integrating employee groups (whenever it happens) will seem like a walk in the park compared to what may be necessary to make the combined entity competitive. Roughly 2/3 of the combined carrier brings some of the highest costs in the industry, and firing everybody from managers up will only solve a fraction of that problem. While I'm not talking about employee contracts (already at the low end of the industry at US), there'll have to be some major restructuring of US operations to wring the high costs out.

Just my opinion.....

Jim

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I've just got this sneakin' s'pecion that that integrating employee groups (whenever it happens) will seem like a walk in the park compared to what may be necessary to make the combined entity competitive.  Roughly 2/3 of the combined carrier brings some of the highest costs in the industry, and firing everybody from managers up will only solve a fraction of that problem.  While I'm not talking about employee contracts (already at the low end of the industry at US), there'll have to be some major restructuring of US operations to wring the high costs out.

Just my opinion.....

Jim

[post="270982"][/post]​

Jim, I agree. Any ideas on what could help bring the costs down? When US gets out of bankruptcy they will be able to hedge more fuel. Still, that isn't enough.
The end of Crystal City HQ will be good as the lease rates are enormous. I suspect a whole bunch of stuff will be let go before the airline gets out of bankruptcy. Hence, the PIT gate leases at the midnight hour prior to BK 2. If anything, I am so glad to see the mangement in CCY go. I think Parker is a guy that really wants to run a quality airline right now that's our biggest obstacle at US Airways management that values quality.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As you mentioned, there's a fair amount of facilities/functions that are duplicates and the combination won't need double the people in those jobs even if the combination was double in size of the individual carriers. CCY is just the start - there's dispatch, crew sked, trip construction, training scheduling, and on and on. We're basically talking about a lot of people who won't have jobs and aren't on the list for a share of that $55 million package.

Then there's aircraft utilization, PHL, crew utilization, gate utilization, staffing from both in some places, did I mention PHL, and on and on.

As you well know, shrinking the combined fleet puts upward pressure on CASM. Quite a bit of cost cutting will be needed to just offset that, then more will need to be done to reduce the CASM.

The only thing I know for sure is that I wouldn't want to be the one that has to figure out how to accomplish it - sounds like Excedrin headache #1-#100 combined to me.

Jim

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Jim, I agree. Any ideas on what could help bring the costs down? When US gets out of bankruptcy they will be able to hedge more fuel. Still, that isn't enough.
The end of Crystal City HQ will be good as the lease rates are enormous. I

[post="270983"][/post]​

With the military be REALIGNED out of Crystal City and the consultants following them, low rent might be had in Crystal City.