Wisconsin

[Kev3188]

What should be apparent -certainly to members of this board - is that what the WI governor is doing is essentially what US airlines did in BK - and then throw Whether the WI governor NEEDED to limit the control of WI unions is the real question - and in reality only those who in WI who have followed WI's budget situation for years really know. If the WI government has repeatedly requested w/o success for union assistance to reduce the budget deficits, then perhaps there is some reason to believe that the governor is not completely out of line.

They have previously agreed to concessions. They agreed to everything else Walker has asked this time around for in return for him to move off his stance of stripping away bargaining rights. The governor has said no deal.

 

[dapoes]

I certainly hope that the people of WI figure out how to maintain their outstanding level of education (consistently rated as some of the best in the country) and still work within their budget.

I agree with most of what you said. But that last line about "outstanding level of education" im not so sure about.

Facts and figures on Milwaukee Public Schools

In the game of “where does our money go,” I think these numbers are very important. I wonder if other school districts waste money as well as Milwaukee Public Schools?

For the 2007-2008 school year, MPS reports the following:

87,360 students

Budget = Almost $1.2 billion ($13,673 per child)

14,449 staff positions – 281 principals, 5,694 teachers, 503 teacher aides, 207 guidance/psychological, 415 service workers, 529 clerical/secretarial

207 schools – 124 elementary, 17 middle, 55 high school, 11 combined

87.7% attendance rate

68% graduation rate

24% suspension rate

2006 test results:
Grade 4 – 62% proficient in reading, 52% proficient in math
Grade 8 – 62% proficient in reading, 40% proficient in math
Grade 10 – 39% proficient in reading, 29% proficient in math

And what has the budget looked like over the years?

2002 – $1.026 billion
2003 – $1.145 billion (11.57% increase)
2004 – $1.172 billion (2.34% increase)
2005 – $1.139 billion (2.81% decrease)
2006 – $1.161 billion (1.92% increase)
2007 – $1.167 billion (0.47% increase)
2008 – $1.194 billion (2.38% increase)

Something tells me that with less than 1/2 of our 10th graders able to read and less than 1/3 of our 10th graders able to do math, we’re not getting our money’s worth.

And More:

1. Another example of the failure of Milwaukee Public Schools

[*]92% of the students have been suspended within the last year.
[*]In the 2004-05 school year, there were 11 drug- or weapon-related incidents that resulted in suspension or expulsion. (How many more were there that did NOT result in those consequences?)

[*]Last year, only 4% of the 10th graders tested proficient in reading, science, and social studies. (That was 1 student out of 24.)

[*]Last year ZERO 10th graders tested proficient in math.
[*]There was so much turnover amongst students, that 132% of them were deemed chronically truant. (189 students were chronically truant, when the school had official enrollment of 143.)

2. Milwaukee Public Schools – Failing its students

As of September 25, Milwaukee Public Schools had 9,000 students in ninth grade. Freshmen. Kids who are usually 14, going on 15 years old.

3,000 of those ninth graders were in ninth grade for at least the second time.

636 of those ninth graders were at least 17 years old. That’s right. 7% of the ninth graders are at least three years “behind” in school. (The discussion in the Journal Sentinel says that they’re two years behind. But I can do math. 17 minus the typical age of 14 at the beginning of the school year in September is 3 years.)

3. Milwaukee Public Schools spending more next year

Last year the district spent more than $14,000 per child. This year the figure will be around $15,500 per child. Quite the bargain when you consider only 39% of 10th graders can read and 29% of them can do math.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Dapoes,
MPS is not the sum total of the state of WI's education. If you pick any urban school system in any state you would come up far short of reality.

Kev,
if the public unions are indeed willing to agree to the concessions being sought, then I have to ask if the gov't grab for power is necessary.

I still think the two issues (concessions) and the mechanism for future raises should be separated w/ the latter sent to the voters themselves. There would be no confusion about what is being mandated by the voters then.

 

[dapoes]

Dapoes,
MPS is not the sum total of the state of WI's education. If you pick any urban school system in any state you would come up far short of reality.

That may be true, however it should be considered highly relevant to the problems at hand. Average statistics of the whole state should not be used to minimize the alarming problems with their education system. Especially in urban schools with a much higher student population. If we look at the statistics alone, then the assertion can be tilted. So if urban school "A" ranks 25% with a much higher population count and rural school "B" with a lower population ranks 75% then the assertion is the state is at 50% ranking only covers up the alarming problems.

Make sense?

 

[dapoes]

They have previously agreed to concessions. They agreed to everything else Walker has asked this time around for in return for him to move off his stance of stripping away bargaining rights. The governor has said no deal.

There is no blanket stripping away of anything. That is a lie. They have not agreed to any concessions, they want the governer "come to the table". Which we all know what that means. No concession and stall tactics. Personally I think Walker should do what Christie did to the teachers union in NJ when they pulled the same thing. Close the schools, fire the teachers.

 

[delldude]

There's always BK....I believe there is legislation in the works to go that way.
States are strapped....its going to be a summer of protests to those who will lose what was promised for such a long time. Aren't a lot of these pensions and bennies what the unions elected people into office for? Now where's the rage against those whom they put into office for these benefits?
Funny the union hierarchy sending out these protesting union members all the while sitting back enjoying their fully funded pensions and benefits.'Useful Idiots' I think Marx said.
Bottom line is Obama's stimulus money, in a lot of places went where it wasn't meant for which only delayed this issue countrywide to a later date. And I won't be surprised to see more money to let this slide on down the road to after the 2012 election.

 

[dapoes]

Even the teachers in WI thinks the school system sucks

Public schools no place for teachers’ kids

The report says the school choice movement has begun competitively forcing public school improvement, particularly in cities like Milwaukee, called “a hotbed of school reform,” where 29.4 percent of public school teachers sent their children to private schools, the study finds.

and

In Washington (28 percent), Baltimore (35 percent) and 16 other major cities, the figure is more than 1 in 4. In some cities, nearly half of the children of public school teachers have abandoned public schools.

In Philadelphia, 44 percent of the teachers put their children in private schools; in Cincinnati, 41 percent; Chicago, 39 percent; Rochester, N.Y., 38 percent. The same trends showed up in the San Francisco-Oakland area, where 34 percent of public school teachers chose private schools for their children; 33 percent in New York City and New Jersey suburbs; and 29 percent in Milwaukee and New Orleans.

What does that tell you?

 

[Kev3188]

There is no blanket stripping away of anything. That is a lie.

You're joking, right? That's exactly what Walker is seeking.

They have not agreed to any concessions, they want the governer "come to the table".

Yes they have. They agreed to both his pension and health care demands.

Funny you bring up the MKE schools... Walker used to be MKE county commissioner...

 

[delldude]

You're joking, right? That's exactly what Walker is seeking.




Yes they have. They agreed to both his pension and health care "asks."

What of bargaining under selective service? He mentioned that in his speech the other day.

 

[dapoes]

You're joking, right? That's exactly what Walker is seeking.

Yes they have. They agreed to both his pension and health care demands.

Funny you bring up the MKE schools... Walker used to be MKE county commissioner...

Well thats really not such a bad thing after all now is it? Theres an additional 68 mill in savings according to his interview with ABC.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2011/02/wisconsin-governor-scott-walker-were-broke-and-cant-negotiate.html

Seems like the unions are choking the crapola out of WI just as they have in CA, NY, etc.

He is having to deal with tough issues caused by liberal progressives. What do the dems do? Cut and run out of state.

So if he wants to end it....then so be it. Hopefully other states will follow.

 

[delldude]

Apparently Obama OFA is bussing a lot of people in for visual effect.
Worries about the Dem's possibility of losing that state in 2012.

The Democratic National Committee's Organizing for America arm -- the remnant of the 2008 Obama campaign -- is playing an active role in organizing protests against Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's attempt to strip most public employees of collective bargaining rights.

Read more: http://nation.foxnews.com/wisconsin-protests/2011/02/17/dnc-caught-organizing-wisconsin-protests#ixzz1EdDQpmJA

 

[delldude]

Big event in Wisconsin for the extremes.



We need Che posters. Workers of the World Unite!

 

[delldude]

Uh, yeah actually he is. What he's trying to do is strip away the collective bargaining rights of state employees.

The state deficit? A huge part of that is a result of iniatives he himself has pushed through.

More info here.

You know Kev, he is actually doing what he campaigned on so why should anyone in WI be shocked?

Lots of coat tailer's on the bandwagon now......

The whole world is watching....The whole world is watching......

Its like a 60's moment....wow man....got dube?

 

[Kev3188]

Well thats really not such a bad thing after all now is it? Theres an additional 68 mill in savings according to his interview with ABC.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2011/02/wisconsin-governor-scott-walker-were-broke-and-cant-negotiate.html

Here's some real numbers:

"But, as we reported on Sunday, a close reading of the governor's own press release announcing the measure shows just how misleading that claim really is.

Here's the problem, according to Walker's release:

The state of Wisconsin is facing an immediate deficit of $137 million for the current fiscal year which ends July 1. In addition, bill collectors are waiting to collect over $225 million for a prior raid of the Patients’ Compensation Fund.

There is a $137 million shortfall for this year. Regarding the Patients' Compensation Fund, Politifact reports that "a court ruling is pending in that matter, so the money might not have to be transferred until next budget year."

But here are three important points from the governor's release that show quite clearly that this bill has nothing at all to do with closing Wisconsin's budget gap in the near-term -- as an emergency measure that wasn't even subject to public debate.

1. "The budget repair will also restructure the state debt, lowering the state’s interest rate, saving the state $165 million." That's right, restructuring the state's outstanding debt yields more savings than the projected shortfall, and nobody is objecting to that provision.

2. "It will require state employees to pay about 5.8% toward their pension (about the private sector national average) and about 12% of their healthcare benefits (about half the private sector national average). These changes will help the state save $30 million in the last three months of the current fiscal year." Yes, those give-backs would yield less than 20 percent of what the debt restructuring would bring in. And, as I mentioned earlier, the public employees' unions offered to make those concessions in exchange for losing the provision that would bar them from negotiating their benefits package in the future, and the GOP flatly refused the offer.

3. The collective bargaining provision wouldn't kick in until after the current contracts expire, meaning that the measure would yield exactly zero savings in the current budget.

Random Lengths News' Paul Rosenberg caught this, and adds that Walker is also sitting on an "unused cache of $73 million" in the state's economic development fund -- "more than twice what’s being sought from public sector workers.”

Samuel Smith at Scholars and Rogues has more detail.

AlterNet also reported over the weekend that while far too many pundits continue to buy Scott Walker's spin that the Wisconsin uprising is a response to the state's public employees being asked to shoulder more of the burden for their health-care and pension costs, the reality is that it's really all about the union-busting.

According to the Milwaukee Business Times, the unions have in fact agreed to all of the GOP's demands on wages and benefits, in exchange for Republicans dropping the provision that would strip them of the right to negotiate in the future:

Although union leaders and Wisconsin Democratic Senators are offering to accept the wage and benefit concessions Gov. Scott Walker is demanding, Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-Juneau) said today a bill taking away collective bargaining rights from public employees is not negotiable.

Democrats and union leaders said they're willing to agree to the parts of Walker's budget repair bill that would double their health insurance contributions and require them to contribute 5.8 percent of their salary to their pensions. However, the union leaders want to keep their collective bargaining rights.

"I have been informed that all state and local public employees – including teachers - have agreed to the financial aspects of Governor Walker's request," Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D-Waunakee) said. "This includes Walker's requested concessions on public employee health care and pension. In return they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed. This will solve the budget challenge. This is a real opportunity for us to come together and resolve the issue and move on. It is incumbent upon Governor Walker to seriously consider and hopefully accept this offer as soon as possible."

However, Fitzgerald said the terms of the bill are not negotiable, and he called upon Democrats who left the state this week to stall a vote on the bill to return to the Capitol.

On a related note, Business Insider, citing research by economist Menzie Chinn, reported that "Wisconsin's public sector workers get paid LESS than the private sector." Almost 5 percent less, even including healthcare and retirement benefits."

The rest can be read here.

Seems like the unions are choking the crapola out of WI just as they have in CA, NY, etc.

No they're not.

He is having to deal with tough issues caused by liberal progressives. What do the dems do? Cut and run out of state.

No, he's having to deal with fall out caused by the largest transfer of wealth in our nation's history. He's just using a page out of his master's playbook, and blaming public unions.

Apparently Obama OFA is bussing a lot of people in for visual effect.
Worries about the Dem's possibility of losing that state in 2012.

No he's not; he doesn't have to. They're coming on their own.

Big event in Wisconsin for the extremes.



We need Che posters. Workers of the World Unite!

Unite indeed! You prefer they sit and do nothing? Maybe post all day on a forum?

You know Kev, he is actually doing what he campaigned on so why should anyone in WI be shocked?

Lots of coat tailer's on the bandwagon now......

The whole world is watching....The whole world is watching......

Its like a 60's moment....wow man....got dube?

It *is* like a 60's moment... with out the National Guard... yet...

Why do you equate people standing up with drug use?

 

[dapoes]

Here's some real numbers:

The rest can be read here.

Alternet? Really Kev? What would one expect from a hard left socialist blog?