Winning Over The Customers?
- Thread starter BoeingBoy
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bobcat said:
Well, yes, you are cold and unsympathetic. And this is why many of your customers would be just as happy to see you out of business, even though they "fully understand these types of situations" mean that 28,000 people lose their jobs.
bobcat said:
Look, some excuses are clearly lamer than others. Things like a severe illness, death in the family, serious accident, etc. are probably good reasons to waive some of the restrictions in the interest of good customer service. Have the passenger mail or fax in some credible proof of the situation and charge a nominal processing fee of $25-50 per ticket. And make sure to document the passenger's record so as to avoid repeated abuse of this limited exception made for compassion.
bobcat said:
No, the point of having rules is to keep dishonest people from repeatedly abusing the system. Unfortunately, your company chooses to penalize the honest ones as well.
bobcat said:
US Airways is a business, but they have forgotten that the two major things they deliver in the process of doing business are transportation and customer service. Do you think that the tangled web of restrictions imposed by the airlnie and the "no waivers, no favors" policy embody good customer service? Can you explain why US Airways, with all these restrictions and customer-unfriendly policies, is losing money while airlines like Southwest, AirTran, and jetBlue, with far fewer fees and restrictions on their tickets, are making money? Have you ever considered that the company loses money in the long run by imposing punitive, customer-unfriendly policies?
Take a look at Southwest's mission statement:
Notice that it does not say anything about air transportation or trying to get as much money as possible from its customers.
bobcat said:
And this is probably one of the reasons US Airways will ultimately fail. Management is so obsessed with extracting every single last dime from its passengers that they lose sight of how much future revenue certain decisions can cost. And they fail to recognize that empowering employees to bend the rules in certain situations leads to higher customer satisfaction and repeat business.
In any case, it's clear from the article that this was not handled with tact and consistency, and the worst violator was a member of management!
bobcat said:
We haven't forgotten. How profitable are the airlines with the most rules, restrictions and change fees?
KCFlyer
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bobcat said:
Bobcat - the thing is this - You've got a new neighbor in PHL and THEY don't charge change fees. People flying them know that the ticket is non-refundable, but if they come down with the flu and can't fly until later, they aren't penalized for staying off the flight. Heck...I'd just as soon they DIDN'T get on the flight when they're sick...all their germs floating around an enclosed cabin with recirculated air for a few hours can't be good for other passengers or flight crews.
In a situation that "I have a brain tumor" - a doctors note telling the airline that ought to get something for them. Even if you feel you must charge a handling fee to do it.
youngblood
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Okay I am not going to quote everything that I just read that I want to respond to simply because I don't have the time.
First and foremost, bobcat is NOT cold!!!!!!!!!!! Bobcat simply does what he/she is told. Sometimes you get to the point where you hear so many lies and catch so many, many people in lies that don't believe anyone. This couple was obviously not lying or else they would not have gone to the paper, but seeing how I work with and know all the Customer Service Sups I wonder if their quotes of what the supervisor said were accurate. I have listened to some of the conversations and heard translate "I'm sorry there's nothing I can do" into "You're stupid if you think I am going to waive any fees." We all do what we are told.
I won't deny that in EVERY company there is someone who is not a good tactful customer service agent and those who aren't should be handled accordingly. But we at US are called upon to do our job - plain and simple. We are not to sway from the rules otherwise our jobs may be at stake. And that's the bottom line folks. I gaurantee that if the couple purchased over the phone, they were told the rules in a very simple way. A way in which there was no misunderstanding. I have had people present me with the "what if" question many times and I tell them flat out that there are no waivers - and that is at the time of purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the Consumer Affairs issue ............ when someone calls CA and follows the prompts any travel that hasn't originated yet is routed back to RES. In other words we are told no waivers and by the way don't refer pasenger to Consumer Affairs.
SFB,
How dare you blame the rules and regulations made BY MANAGEMENT on some who is on the front line enforcing them and in the same breathe wishing away their job. Have you ever had your chest squeeze when someone sobbing pops in on your line wanting to change or their money back because their 4 Year old grandson just passed away and you have to tell them I'm sorry - can't waive anything for you? NO YOU HAVEN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the job I do and I hate those calls but quite frankly my hands are tied and I AM THE BAD GUY? PAAAALLLEEEAAAZE. You don't have many brain cells left if you think the majority of people asking for waivers are just trying to get one over. And you have rocks for brains if you think we ENJOY telling those who do have a legitamate reason for changing that there's nothing we can do.
I do my job and I do it well. I don't necessarily like or agree with the rules but I enforce them otherwise I lose my job for insubordination. Try explaining that to your next employer. The Sups in RES are in the same position. We all get nasty grams if something is done and then you are put on the "watch list". We all have ways of dealing with company policies. Those in reservations have just come to the conclusion that the best approach is "It's a business and I am here to make money for the company, not give money away." That is the only way we know how to deal with "the rules". It is not necessarily "agreeing" with them.
Please don't shoot the messanger. And don't call me a cold, heartless b@#ch for doing my job. You don't know how many times I go home at night worrying about some of the people I talk to nor do you hear the prayers I say for them at night.
As for the CPs, the same rules that apply to someone who is not applies to you. Just remember that every time one of our reps does you "a favor", they may be putting their job on the line for you. And where's the thanks they get?
When are you all goig to get it? WE DON"T MAKE THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doctor's excuses? I just had a doctor call last week who wanted to write an excuse for his two daughters that wanted to stay longer with him. Do I believe him or don't I? In that case the answer is a big FAT NO!!!!!!!!!!
First and foremost, bobcat is NOT cold!!!!!!!!!!! Bobcat simply does what he/she is told. Sometimes you get to the point where you hear so many lies and catch so many, many people in lies that don't believe anyone. This couple was obviously not lying or else they would not have gone to the paper, but seeing how I work with and know all the Customer Service Sups I wonder if their quotes of what the supervisor said were accurate. I have listened to some of the conversations and heard translate "I'm sorry there's nothing I can do" into "You're stupid if you think I am going to waive any fees." We all do what we are told.
I won't deny that in EVERY company there is someone who is not a good tactful customer service agent and those who aren't should be handled accordingly. But we at US are called upon to do our job - plain and simple. We are not to sway from the rules otherwise our jobs may be at stake. And that's the bottom line folks. I gaurantee that if the couple purchased over the phone, they were told the rules in a very simple way. A way in which there was no misunderstanding. I have had people present me with the "what if" question many times and I tell them flat out that there are no waivers - and that is at the time of purchase!!!!!!!!!!!!
On the Consumer Affairs issue ............ when someone calls CA and follows the prompts any travel that hasn't originated yet is routed back to RES. In other words we are told no waivers and by the way don't refer pasenger to Consumer Affairs.
SFB,
How dare you blame the rules and regulations made BY MANAGEMENT on some who is on the front line enforcing them and in the same breathe wishing away their job. Have you ever had your chest squeeze when someone sobbing pops in on your line wanting to change or their money back because their 4 Year old grandson just passed away and you have to tell them I'm sorry - can't waive anything for you? NO YOU HAVEN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the job I do and I hate those calls but quite frankly my hands are tied and I AM THE BAD GUY? PAAAALLLEEEAAAZE. You don't have many brain cells left if you think the majority of people asking for waivers are just trying to get one over. And you have rocks for brains if you think we ENJOY telling those who do have a legitamate reason for changing that there's nothing we can do.
I do my job and I do it well. I don't necessarily like or agree with the rules but I enforce them otherwise I lose my job for insubordination. Try explaining that to your next employer. The Sups in RES are in the same position. We all get nasty grams if something is done and then you are put on the "watch list". We all have ways of dealing with company policies. Those in reservations have just come to the conclusion that the best approach is "It's a business and I am here to make money for the company, not give money away." That is the only way we know how to deal with "the rules". It is not necessarily "agreeing" with them.
Please don't shoot the messanger. And don't call me a cold, heartless b@#ch for doing my job. You don't know how many times I go home at night worrying about some of the people I talk to nor do you hear the prayers I say for them at night.
As for the CPs, the same rules that apply to someone who is not applies to you. Just remember that every time one of our reps does you "a favor", they may be putting their job on the line for you. And where's the thanks they get?
When are you all goig to get it? WE DON"T MAKE THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Doctor's excuses? I just had a doctor call last week who wanted to write an excuse for his two daughters that wanted to stay longer with him. Do I believe him or don't I? In that case the answer is a big FAT NO!!!!!!!!!!
youngblood said:
youngblood-
It sure might help a little bit if you actually read what I had to say. I've worked in customer service, and I know what a b!+@# it can be to deal with the money-related things; I usually dreaded getting the billing calls.
I'll quote myself here:
"Management is so obsessed with extracting every single last dime from its passengers that they lose sight of how much future revenue certain decisions can cost. And they fail to recognize that empowering employees to bend the rules in certain situations leads to higher customer satisfaction and repeat business."
You in customer service/reservations are the employees who need to be empowered by management to help customers rather than penalizing them.
"the point of having rules is to keep dishonest people from repeatedly abusing the system. Unfortunately, your company chooses to penalize the honest ones as well."
Again, I don't think that most people are trying to "get one by" the company -- so why is there a need to penalize honest people with a "no waivers, no favors" policy? I know I wouldn't enjoy taking those sorts of calls, but I do know that helping your customer out in a time of need will buy you more loyalty than a "GoFares" billboard. When I say that "the company" penalizes the honest customers, I know that this is a decision made at CCY.
I don't wish any of your jobs away, but it's very difficult to be sympathetic to a company whose policies, made by upper management, are so horribly unsympathetic to its customers. I most wholeheartedly think you, as the front lines, should be given the power by management to help out good, honest people in a time of need. I think it is fair for you to ask for some type of documentation and to ask for a nominal processing fee for a refund, or to offer the passenger a credit for future travel. I think it is so horribly short-sighted on management's part to be so very callous in its "no waivers, no favors" policies given that the Times-Dispatch article so amply demonstrates that what goes around, comes around.
And I still stand my my assertion that bobcat is cold and unsympathetic, given that he/she more-or-less equates that gentleman's inoperable brain tumor with "your child has an ear infection, broke up with your boyfriend, ... meeting was canceled, wedding was called off, dog died, basement was flooded, broken leg, lost your job, husband was arrested, flat tire, traffic, funeral, can't get days off of work, etc." We all know that some excuses just don't hold water. DUH! Your husband having terminal brain cancer generally is not a poor excuse and it shouldn't be lumped in with a flat tire or a deceased pet.
US1YFARE
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I didn't say that I ask for favors as a CP. In fact, I acknowledged that I ALWAYS pay the change fee/standby fee. I believe I said that unless you are a CP or maybe a US2, the customer service reps do not seem to listen as intently to a "problem".
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#16,
Thanks so much for that info. I'll copy it to all 116 of my co-workers and every customer wanting USAIR who'll listen.
#19,
EXCELLENT post!
Thanks so much for that info. I'll copy it to all 116 of my co-workers and every customer wanting USAIR who'll listen.
#19,
EXCELLENT post!
youngblood
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US1YFARE said:
I am sorry about that. I read your post but simply forgot that you made a point that you pay the change fees; however, I know plenty of CPs, Golds, and Silvers that will try to muscle their way around the fare rules for no reason what so ever.
You have us pegged wrong. We do listen and we do so as intently as if we were speaking to a preferred member. As I said before, there is a bad apple in every bunch but the majority of us are excellant at what we do. As a matter of fact I have spent 45 minutes at times trying to find the cheapest way for someone to reissue a ticket because of their "situation" - because I listened to their problems and because I know it's the best I can do. On the other hand I have been called some pretty nasty things because I tell a preferred member the rules aplly to everyone including preferred.
youngblood
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PineyBob said:
Yes, Piney, that is the work around and there have been times that I have clued people into this in dire circumstances. But the next day we get a bulletin and if CA finds out who referred the passenger they get a smack on the hands. That includes supervisors as well. As far as telling them RES wasn't very nice, that's a crock and you know it. Hopefully, if they ask for a name you only give it to them if the RES rep was truely rude and belligerant.
youngblood
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I guess I took your reply as the "I hope you lose your job cause managment sucks" category.
Considering I may know the person you are talking about, I think I am more qualified to judge their character than you. I believe the point bobcat was making was it difficult to "waive" something for one person and explain to the next person why they can't have waivers. As far as we are concerned, we could care less if management decided to do away with change fees all together. It would make my life less stressful and my job much easier.
I really don't think bobcat was trying to down play the gravity of the situation. I think bobcat was simply trying to say that to each individual person their reason for wanting a waiver may seem as dire circumstances regardless of the situation. How can you tell one person no and another yes? It's better to get rid of the rules altogether in that case and until that happens I will have people calling me every name in the book, wishing my family dead, and my job disappears.
Considering I may know the person you are talking about, I think I am more qualified to judge their character than you. I believe the point bobcat was making was it difficult to "waive" something for one person and explain to the next person why they can't have waivers. As far as we are concerned, we could care less if management decided to do away with change fees all together. It would make my life less stressful and my job much easier.
I really don't think bobcat was trying to down play the gravity of the situation. I think bobcat was simply trying to say that to each individual person their reason for wanting a waiver may seem as dire circumstances regardless of the situation. How can you tell one person no and another yes? It's better to get rid of the rules altogether in that case and until that happens I will have people calling me every name in the book, wishing my family dead, and my job disappears.
youngblood
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Okay, so I'm glad to hear you don't rat people out. Just FYI, we do get monitored and sometimes from CCY.
Also, most of us are fed up and frustrated when we can't help. I think the biggest issue for most of us is that we are not recognized for the effort despite the restrictions. We are berated for the policies of the company. Personally, it tears me apart at times and I let customers get the best of me. If you really want to go to someone who will help bypass the entire frontline group and talk to management on behalf of the customers. Quite frankly CCY does not listen to us.
Also, most of us are fed up and frustrated when we can't help. I think the biggest issue for most of us is that we are not recognized for the effort despite the restrictions. We are berated for the policies of the company. Personally, it tears me apart at times and I let customers get the best of me. If you really want to go to someone who will help bypass the entire frontline group and talk to management on behalf of the customers. Quite frankly CCY does not listen to us.
EyeInTheSky
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Piney, only one attended because everyone is overworked and underpaid. Sad but oh so true and its about to get much worse. The only thing we'll be attending is a Willie Nelson/John Couger concert for unemployed airline employees aka "AirAid 2004."
bob the things you intimate are probably quite true.....you have no way of knowing one way or the other.
remember...they have a corporate face to provide to you....what goes down in the backroom...well you figure it out.
you're only seeing the friendly corporate face... 😉
remember...they have a corporate face to provide to you....what goes down in the backroom...well you figure it out.
you're only seeing the friendly corporate face... 😉
ELP_WN_Psgr
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I'll take music from the 60s and 7-s for a one way ticket PHL-BUF for a hundred, Alex.....wait a minute, that would have to be double jeopardy.'
Bob's description of the nice mgmt people at Roachfest and how they are sincere and genuine sort of reminded me of the OJays....a song called "The Backstabbers" (they smile in your face) or "Smiling Faces" (beware...beware of the pat on the back...it just might hold you back....look out...look out for the handshake...that hides a snake).
People will do what they think they need to do and say what they think they need to say.
Back to the topic at hand. Treating customers poorly. I don't think I need to launch in to a litany of why I think U is wrong, wrong, wrong and with regard to how they treat the customer, they always have been. Captive markets = high fares. qed.
I know Bob displays a great deal of disdain for the folks at Southwest Airlines Co and even though he is wrong, he is entitled to think and do as he pleases. But the core philosophy of the two firms (WN & U) can pretty well be condensed into a short statement, and here it is:
USAirways' management worries about doing things right.
At Southwest management still worries about doing the right thing.
Bob's description of the nice mgmt people at Roachfest and how they are sincere and genuine sort of reminded me of the OJays....a song called "The Backstabbers" (they smile in your face) or "Smiling Faces" (beware...beware of the pat on the back...it just might hold you back....look out...look out for the handshake...that hides a snake).
People will do what they think they need to do and say what they think they need to say.
Back to the topic at hand. Treating customers poorly. I don't think I need to launch in to a litany of why I think U is wrong, wrong, wrong and with regard to how they treat the customer, they always have been. Captive markets = high fares. qed.
I know Bob displays a great deal of disdain for the folks at Southwest Airlines Co and even though he is wrong, he is entitled to think and do as he pleases. But the core philosophy of the two firms (WN & U) can pretty well be condensed into a short statement, and here it is:
USAirways' management worries about doing things right.
At Southwest management still worries about doing the right thing.
Dea Certe
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ELP WN Psgr,
Very well said. Southwest allows its employees to find creative and clever ways to meet their customers needs. The employee is entrusted with management's faith that they will do the right thing. As I've said before, I fly on WN fairly often. I am always treated well, whether I'm flying full fare or non-rev.
WN also supports its customer service people, doesn't second-guess them. WN executives fly SWA, they're not taking a private jet or a first class seat somewhere else, I've been told.
Our management could greatly benefit by getting out among the masses, seeing what it's like to fly on US Airways -- from curb to baggage claim. And from a center seat in coach!
PineyBob, along with a few others set up a most successful meeting with some of our Executives. I really admire that effort and have a new-found respect for those in management who attended Roachfest 04. It had to prove our customers are interested enough in the survival of this airline to take their own time and money to try and make a difference. I hardily applaud all who attended and promise if there's a Roachfest 05, I will be there.
I hope management learned a lot from our very loyal customers during that meeting. And I'm hoping they will continue to be receptive to what was said.
US Airways has the chance, right now, to be the cat of nine lives instead of the cat-0-nine tails. As employees, we want what's best for our customers because we know that's what keeps them coming back. Give us a chance to say "Yes, I can do that for you!" Rather than "Sorry, we don't - we can't...."
As has been said on this board numerous times, much of our frustration comes from the inability to our jobs properly due to some unrealistic "talk times" in RES. Our customers are humans (usually) and humans need a little human contact from time to time. Our CSR's are understaffed so when things go awry as they so often do, we need some one who understands the system to help make the best choices for the customer concerned. I don't believe you're going to find that kind of dedication or experience from some schub off the street who's being paid $7.50 an hour.
I've sat in the boarding area quite a lot. For the most part, we have excellent CSR's who would love to resolve that tricky problem, and have the skills to do so. Just give them the resources to do just that.
What an MBA sees on paper and what the reality of running an airline are different.
Dea
Very well said. Southwest allows its employees to find creative and clever ways to meet their customers needs. The employee is entrusted with management's faith that they will do the right thing. As I've said before, I fly on WN fairly often. I am always treated well, whether I'm flying full fare or non-rev.
WN also supports its customer service people, doesn't second-guess them. WN executives fly SWA, they're not taking a private jet or a first class seat somewhere else, I've been told.
Our management could greatly benefit by getting out among the masses, seeing what it's like to fly on US Airways -- from curb to baggage claim. And from a center seat in coach!
PineyBob, along with a few others set up a most successful meeting with some of our Executives. I really admire that effort and have a new-found respect for those in management who attended Roachfest 04. It had to prove our customers are interested enough in the survival of this airline to take their own time and money to try and make a difference. I hardily applaud all who attended and promise if there's a Roachfest 05, I will be there.
I hope management learned a lot from our very loyal customers during that meeting. And I'm hoping they will continue to be receptive to what was said.
US Airways has the chance, right now, to be the cat of nine lives instead of the cat-0-nine tails. As employees, we want what's best for our customers because we know that's what keeps them coming back. Give us a chance to say "Yes, I can do that for you!" Rather than "Sorry, we don't - we can't...."
As has been said on this board numerous times, much of our frustration comes from the inability to our jobs properly due to some unrealistic "talk times" in RES. Our customers are humans (usually) and humans need a little human contact from time to time. Our CSR's are understaffed so when things go awry as they so often do, we need some one who understands the system to help make the best choices for the customer concerned. I don't believe you're going to find that kind of dedication or experience from some schub off the street who's being paid $7.50 an hour.
I've sat in the boarding area quite a lot. For the most part, we have excellent CSR's who would love to resolve that tricky problem, and have the skills to do so. Just give them the resources to do just that.
What an MBA sees on paper and what the reality of running an airline are different.
Dea
