Winning Over The Customers?
- Thread starter BoeingBoy
- Start date
Not to sound cold or unsympathetic but this is a business. I fully understand these types of situations but when someone buys a non refundable non transferable ticket, that is exactly what it is.
It doesn't say non refundable and non transferable except...if you have the flu, have a terrible illness, your child has an ear infection, broke up with your boyfriend, were in an accident, have to have an operation, meeting was canceled, wedding was called off, dog died, basement was flooded, broken leg, lost your job, husband was arrested, flat tire, traffic, funeral, can't get days off of work, etc etc.
Guaranteed the situation in the article should have been handled more tactfuly as all of these situations should but, when tickets are purchased the rules and restrictions are explained by the agents to every passenger and all rules and restrictions are on every website to read prior to purchase and do not include "except if". Of course there are going to be many reasons why people need to cancel or make changes and the rules on this type of ticket allow for that. As long as the passenger calls, prior to midnight on the date of travel, to cancel, they may use the credit for one year from the date of purchase with a $100.00 change fee and any difference in fare. Returns must be rebooked by midnight on the date of travel if outbound flown.
When tickets are purchased the person purchasing the ticket agrees to these terms. Of course unforseable events do occur and changes sometimes do need to be made but, the rules of the ticket should be followed or there is no need to have these rules.
Again, this is a business and every business goal is to make money. In the past so much money has been lost by waiving anything and everything. The public became accustomed to that and now they expect it. Now when they are denied a waiver all hell breaks loose and US is the worst, cold hearted, unsympathetic company in the world. US has created a monster.
The rules and restrictions are there for a reason and should be followed in exactly the same manner with each and every passenger. In each situation where a waiver is requested, the rules and options should be clearly explained and done with tact and consistency.
Don't forget we are not the only airline with rules, restrictions and change fees.
It doesn't say non refundable and non transferable except...if you have the flu, have a terrible illness, your child has an ear infection, broke up with your boyfriend, were in an accident, have to have an operation, meeting was canceled, wedding was called off, dog died, basement was flooded, broken leg, lost your job, husband was arrested, flat tire, traffic, funeral, can't get days off of work, etc etc.
Guaranteed the situation in the article should have been handled more tactfuly as all of these situations should but, when tickets are purchased the rules and restrictions are explained by the agents to every passenger and all rules and restrictions are on every website to read prior to purchase and do not include "except if". Of course there are going to be many reasons why people need to cancel or make changes and the rules on this type of ticket allow for that. As long as the passenger calls, prior to midnight on the date of travel, to cancel, they may use the credit for one year from the date of purchase with a $100.00 change fee and any difference in fare. Returns must be rebooked by midnight on the date of travel if outbound flown.
When tickets are purchased the person purchasing the ticket agrees to these terms. Of course unforseable events do occur and changes sometimes do need to be made but, the rules of the ticket should be followed or there is no need to have these rules.
Again, this is a business and every business goal is to make money. In the past so much money has been lost by waiving anything and everything. The public became accustomed to that and now they expect it. Now when they are denied a waiver all hell breaks loose and US is the worst, cold hearted, unsympathetic company in the world. US has created a monster.
The rules and restrictions are there for a reason and should be followed in exactly the same manner with each and every passenger. In each situation where a waiver is requested, the rules and options should be clearly explained and done with tact and consistency.
Don't forget we are not the only airline with rules, restrictions and change fees.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
Well, I'm just a customer, but I agree with bob.
That is bobcat, not pineybob.
That is bobcat, not pineybob.
US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
- 3,932
- 54
Unless you are a very FF and are aware of the assistance you can get from Consumer Affairs and other departments, you can get lost. Some, not all, of the res agents on the "dirt" line can get very nasty and sarcastic rather than showing some empathy and referring a customer to someone that may be able to help them. I am not saying they should give away the airline, but provide a little bit of customer service. I experienced this myself a month after 9/11 when my wife had to get an unexpected scan for a suspcious lump--she got squeezed in to get the scan and we had very little notice. Anyway, the agent was incredibly rude ("tell her to change the appointment") and all I wanted to do was take a later flight the same day to BOS from PHL (not really a big deal when you think about it because seats were open)--she was going to charge me more than I paid for the ticket because of change fees and my fare class was no longer available. (I was a US3 at that time.) After lots of fighting, they changed the flight with a "this time only" disclaimer--yeah, thanks--I HATE WHEN THEY SAY THAT--I think they believe it has some legal implication. Well, despite that, call me a glutton for punishment, I continued to fly US and have flown enough that I now deal with the CP line and those people are great--almost never have a "problem" and would never be blown off and get advice if I need to speak someone else with more authority. Also, when you are a US1 or US2, life is much easier on US--they really do treat them well.
EyeInTheSky
Veteran
Looks like it was resolved to me. Unfortunately, through media pressure did they relent. This is what gives a lot of fodder to airline bashing in the media. Stupid is as stupid does...
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,322
- 1,427
bobcat said:
I fully understand the situation, but there is something missing in the mass of verbage that Piney pointed out...compassion. And yes, some legacies have it. Yes, the rules state that the ticket is nonrefundable or non changeable. But would it be too much to ask the couple to provide a letter from the doctor, on the doctor's letterhead, that states the man has an inoperable brain tumor and can't travel? Then make the exception and issue a refund? This exact thing happened to my dad 3 years ago. He was going to fly to Virginia for a family reunion when he was diagnosed with cancer and the doctor said "No travel". He was booked on Delta in this case, and the response was "sorry, the ticket is non refundable". Didn't break him, but didn't leave a particularly good taste either.
As far as legacy compassion...I've been kind of rough on AA on other boards because their walk up round trip from MCI-DFW is $872. My mother passed away last month, and you can't plan for something like that. I called AA and asked if they had a bereavement fare available. Yes, they did...$275 round trip...fully refundable, fully changeable (without penalty). All they wanted was the funeral home phone number. I might moan about AA's high prices on "captive" routes, but I'll say this...their compassion during a time of personal crisis in my life just moved them way up on my list of "preferred" airlines. And I just posted it on a message board that has thousands of people reading it. Imagine the good "word of mouth" that US could have received from this couple had they just shown a touch of compassion.
As far as the potential for abuse - I think that can be limited. If someone can't fly because of the flu...maybe waive the change fee and apply the full amount towards another flight. But when it's a life altering medical diagnosis, a little compassion can go a long way.
nycbusdriver
Veteran
Surely the restriction language should be more understandable and less legalese. However, when someone buys a non-refundable, non changeable ticket he receives that service in return for a much lower fare. Quid pro quo. That's the basis of contract law. If one cannot accept the quo, one should not be entitled to the quid.
I've purchased real tickets on overseas flights and have to walk away when plans changed. In one case, I flat out lost the fare and I accepted that loss because that's how it was explained to me when I purchased the ticket. So be it. I didn;t even TRY to whine for accomodation.
On anothe occasion, I bought a ticket with a $100 fee for change or cancellation. I cancelled. I paid the fee. It was explained up front, so why should I whine that the rules should be changed for me?
I've purchased real tickets on overseas flights and have to walk away when plans changed. In one case, I flat out lost the fare and I accepted that loss because that's how it was explained to me when I purchased the ticket. So be it. I didn;t even TRY to whine for accomodation.
On anothe occasion, I bought a ticket with a $100 fee for change or cancellation. I cancelled. I paid the fee. It was explained up front, so why should I whine that the rules should be changed for me?
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,322
- 1,427
nycbusdriver said:
How about this...Southwest doesn't do that. And that is a more powerful reason for folks to book on Southwest than many folks seem to believe. Can't make the flight? What one can you make? Good...here's 100% of the fare you paid applied to that trip. Powerful loyalty builder.
longing4piedmont
Veteran
- May 19, 2003
- 1,291
- 6
I agree with you. I don’t like them, wish they would go away and we were told in PHL at the roachfest that a change is coming to make this less restrictive and less expensive to change. But like you, I knew what the rules when I booked them so I do not complain when I have to pay themnycbusdriver said:
On the other hand let me relay a story shared by my two seat mates on the way up to the meeting. This retied couple used to fly US several times a year and when using an award ticket on a trip to the west coast, the husband became very ill and had to be hospitalized. When he was well enough to travel he asked to be transfered to a hospital at home. When they called US they were, I gather, rather rudely told they would have to buy new tickets at $1,200 rather than being ale to stand by or take an earlier flight than booked using the award. They were stunned not only by having to buy an new ticket, but with the attitude US took in resolving the issue. They had not flown US since that flight, two years, until the one I was on. I wonder just how much revenue US lost playing hard ball?
I did pass the note on to Deb Thompson and her office followed up with them, but I do not know the outcome.
Regarding a doctor's note, wasn't there an incident on USAirways several years ago in which a doctor's note was provided and USAirways was made the laughingstock of the industry? As I recall, this woman insisted on bringing her pig onboard with a doctor's note saying that it was the woman's therapeutic companion. I think that each case should be looked at individually but in cases where there is a lifethreatening or serious illness, money should be refunded cheerfully as these are the things that bring people back instead of generating bad press that will turn so many more away.
WestCoastGuy
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2004
- 813
- 0
Those of us that work at the ATO or in RES do NOT SET THE FARE RULES. That is done by Inventory Management. We are instructed to follow the fare rules when customers want to change. We can not and are told NOT TO OVER RIDE the rules. Even the supervisors and managers get nasty grams from Inventory when we overrule on certain restrictive fares. Yet the cutomers insist on yelling and screaming at us, when it should be directed to Consumer Affairs. That is where change in policy and fare rules can be addressed. Most of us can show compassion for people but after being yelling and screamed at and called names, my compassion tends to drop.
US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
- 3,932
- 54
WestCoastGuy said:
That was my point earlier. A lot of res, will just say, nothing can be done, sorry, or make a smart comment. Maybe they should take the extra step and direct the customer to Consumer Affairs or another department who can help. This doesn't work for all customers--some are just going to be belligerent no matter how nicely you treat them, but when it usually helps the situation when a customer feels like you genuinely care about helping them resolve a problem. And, when an agent says "the supervisor is only going to tell you the same thing I am telling you"--that is a comment that is not even worthy of being made. The same as, THIS IS A ONE TIME EXCEPTION--I think someone took a business law class and told people that means anything--the only thing it means is that you are scolding the customer for doing something for them.
PineyBob
Your example of part of a fare rule at first glance does look like mish mash but, if you take the time to actually read it , it isn't that difficult to understand. It is a given that the rules and restrictions need to be simplified but, the main issues are always the $100.00 change fee, non refundable and non transferable rules. On every confirmation for that type of ticket it is plainly printed. Unfortunately a lot of passengers do not care to read the r & r and do not listen to the agents as they explain the rules after purchasing their ticket. I would say 90% are intelligent, literate human beings and should be interested in knowing the rules on what they just spent their hard earned money on. If they don't understand the rules all they have to do is ask. I'm sure any agent would be happy to explain and be quite grateful that someone actually wants to know.
You wouldn't believe the people that don't care about what the rules are. While agents are going over the rules they are constantly interupted with... what's my seat, I want this seat, I have to have an aisle seat up front, I want a low fat meal, and so on. Same with the DOT (express) advisement. No one listens. I heard an agent say that while going over an itinerary and advising DOT that the guy buying the ticket kept interupting and saying "yea yea yea what ever" and hung up on her. That guy is going to be the one that screams and yells and wants the world in compensation when he goes to board the plane and finds out it's a 50 seat RJ and he will insist that he was never told. Once that ticket is bought not many care to hear the "ugly details".
As far as refundable bereavement and medical emergency fares go, US has them also and in a lot of instances they are much lower than other airlines. But, again, there are rules and restrictions that must be followed. I hate to say it but, those fares are highly abused. The public knows they are available and how to get them. There have been many many times that potential passengers have been caught lying and I'm sure thousands of others have not been caught lying and have gotten the emergency fares. The public has found many many ways to get around the system and they do it daily. They say the airlines rips off their passengers...well they certainly do it and feel no guilt. As I stated before, this is a business and US is here to make money. Every company has their rules and regulations and they are meant to be enforced with consistency.
The issue with doctors' notes is a little rediculous. Just about everyone knows a doctor who would write a note or for that matter how hard is it to type up a letter with some type of professional looking letterhead? Not very. Who is going to police this. Invent another dept. and hire more employees to verify these letters. Not likely.
The bottom line is passengers need to be responsible consumers and know and understand what they are buying and be willing to follow the rules and restrictions. It's the airlines' responsibility to advise of these rules and have them readily available on their web sites and at the atos and they do!
Your example of part of a fare rule at first glance does look like mish mash but, if you take the time to actually read it , it isn't that difficult to understand. It is a given that the rules and restrictions need to be simplified but, the main issues are always the $100.00 change fee, non refundable and non transferable rules. On every confirmation for that type of ticket it is plainly printed. Unfortunately a lot of passengers do not care to read the r & r and do not listen to the agents as they explain the rules after purchasing their ticket. I would say 90% are intelligent, literate human beings and should be interested in knowing the rules on what they just spent their hard earned money on. If they don't understand the rules all they have to do is ask. I'm sure any agent would be happy to explain and be quite grateful that someone actually wants to know.
You wouldn't believe the people that don't care about what the rules are. While agents are going over the rules they are constantly interupted with... what's my seat, I want this seat, I have to have an aisle seat up front, I want a low fat meal, and so on. Same with the DOT (express) advisement. No one listens. I heard an agent say that while going over an itinerary and advising DOT that the guy buying the ticket kept interupting and saying "yea yea yea what ever" and hung up on her. That guy is going to be the one that screams and yells and wants the world in compensation when he goes to board the plane and finds out it's a 50 seat RJ and he will insist that he was never told. Once that ticket is bought not many care to hear the "ugly details".
As far as refundable bereavement and medical emergency fares go, US has them also and in a lot of instances they are much lower than other airlines. But, again, there are rules and restrictions that must be followed. I hate to say it but, those fares are highly abused. The public knows they are available and how to get them. There have been many many times that potential passengers have been caught lying and I'm sure thousands of others have not been caught lying and have gotten the emergency fares. The public has found many many ways to get around the system and they do it daily. They say the airlines rips off their passengers...well they certainly do it and feel no guilt. As I stated before, this is a business and US is here to make money. Every company has their rules and regulations and they are meant to be enforced with consistency.
The issue with doctors' notes is a little rediculous. Just about everyone knows a doctor who would write a note or for that matter how hard is it to type up a letter with some type of professional looking letterhead? Not very. Who is going to police this. Invent another dept. and hire more employees to verify these letters. Not likely.
The bottom line is passengers need to be responsible consumers and know and understand what they are buying and be willing to follow the rules and restrictions. It's the airlines' responsibility to advise of these rules and have them readily available on their web sites and at the atos and they do!
RumorS
Senior
- Aug 19, 2002
- 257
- 0
US1YFARE said:
We are unable to direct calls to Consumer Affairs. They only deal with past travel!!! If they receive a call that has to deal with future travel or anything that is not something that occurred in the past, The call is then blind transferred back to reservations! So directing someone to consumer affairs only gets the passenger slapped on hold and blind transferred to resv! Now even more P O'ed because they are back to square one!!!!!! IMO C/A should be shut down!!!!
US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
- 3,932
- 54
RumorS said:
Then, the system is fundamentally flawed. I'm not saying res is 100% to blame--there just has to be a desire to keep the customer without giving the airline away. I had an issue once where I was charged for a ticket on another airline (European connection) and wasn't allowed to use the 2 seats because it was ticketed incorrectly. US blamed LH, LH blamed US. US kept transferring me and finally I had to say to them, no, no more transferring. If you want to keep my business you make the calls and call me by X day. They did, but only because I was a US1--anyone who was a US4 a/k/a dirt, would still be fighting.
I do think rules are rules and change fees are part of the price of purchasing a very deeply discounted ticket, BUT, come on, there are certain times that exceptions are warranted even out of goodwill jesture. When the airline finds that someone has lied about using a fare they don't qualify for, then they should charge them what the fare should have been....they are doing that more and more with audits of travelers who manipulate the saturday stay requirement.
