Will U Get United Routes / Den ?

[Dilligas]

Senioritty to me personally has always been a flawed though easy way to determine a person's worth or pay scale. Right now it is one of the primary causes of US's labor problems.

Certain industries by their nature and structure adhere to a seniority based system of compensation. It is not a perfect system, perhaps a combination of a minimum base pay based on seniority, with the ability to also earn merit raises would be more of an incentive for productive work.

However, for you to make the blanket statement that seniority is one of the primary "labor problems" at U is downright misinformed at the least, inflammatory, and appears to this reader you are taking a page out of chip's tactics and merely typing what your handlers instruct you to.

The absolute primary cause of "labor problems" at U can be traced to one individual... and he doesn't have much seniority at all.

 

[Ch. 12]

To try to stop the whole "I've been wronged" tilt that begins in every thread (and ultimately ends the thread with rantings on both sides), let's get back to seniority. Yes, seniority is one of the largest issues faced by U b/c as a well established legacy, U has a highly senior workforce. The problem, as we see from these boards, is that SOME (definitely not the majority) of these senior people are unmotivated anymore and would be paid much less in a merit system. There is a definite curve to seniority. In the first few years, productivity and knowledge goes up significantly. However, after that, seniority can be detrimental. The curve begins going down as new knowledge is replaced with one's own determination of how things should work. And at this point, productivity goes down. This is a generalization but largely true and is why seniority based systems are terrible. And union seniority-based systems are even worse b/c the point is that the more senior you become, the less you should have to do (increasing work rules over time) but the more you should get paid.

So let's get off pointing at everyone in mgmt and finally look in the mirror and say that "hey...maybe I do get paid 2-3x as much as the SAME job in another industry. I constantly hear how safety concerns and life-saving abilities are what separate the airlines from other industries but this is bogus. I have served as a volunteer firefighter and was paid NOTHING for knowing CPR and evacuation routines. Safety is the primary focus of ANY industry and is not exclusive to the airlines. There is no difference in responsibility therefore there should be no difference in pay...at least not to the enourmous extent that there is today.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's a little fanciful to think that UA employees/unions are going to agree to any kind of concessions that also includes laying off their people, even in order to raise cash. UA employees have to make the choice whether to take pay cuts or sell assets and the solution is probably some of both; the history of the industry is pretty clear that airlines that start selling off assets only precipitate their downfall. You'll remember that was talked about at US not too long ago and the unions responded as expected. There is no reason to think UA employees wouldn't respond in exactly the same way.

 

[iflyjetz]

It's a little fanciful to think that UA employees/unions are going to agree to any kind of concessions that also includes laying off their people, even in order to raise cash. UA employees have to make the choice whether to take pay cuts or sell assets and the solution is probably some of both; the history of the industry is pretty clear that airlines that start selling off assets only precipitate their downfall. You'll remember that was talked about at US not too long ago and the unions responded as expected. There is no reason to think UA employees wouldn't respond in exactly the same way.

World Traveler, I would anticipate UAL's employees to agree to whatever wage/benefit cuts were required to keep the entire route system intact. Most realize that once you start selling core assets, it's just the beginning of the end.