Will U Get United Routes / Den ?

[deltawatch]

Will Usairways get routes if CNBC (sorry) is right?

According to TV here is what will "probably" be required now for UNITED to get commercial loans:

1) They will have to maintain a constant cash balance of $1.5 BILLION in unrestricted cash.

2) They will have to cut airline routes by about 1/3rd and lay off about 1/3rd of employees. With drastic cuts or total elimination of hubs in IAD and DEN, and NEW YORK, and SFO later (as VIRGIN AIR comes on line).

3) All defined benefit retirement plans must be cancelled.

4) Additional 20% paycuts from all work groups.

5) Further reduction of work rules for an additional 20% savings.

6) Elimination of the "TED" experiment.

These are the most likely rules that will be insisted on by the team of banks providing the money to UNITED.

 

[USFlyer]

Who, pray tell, said all of this on CNBC? No way UAL will need to cut this much. The one thing they have going for them is their route network. I do foresee pension cutbacks in some way, and I do see possibly IAD being 100 percent point to point focused (DC has enough O&D traffic to do this for many routes).

 

[latreal]

Are u asking if they will receive them (routes)for FREE?
Or could you have put any carriers name in the place of U?
Or are you assuming because of the codeshare/alliance U would be preferred to receive routes from United?
I don't really get question.
If United has to SELL routes I don't really think U could afford them.

 

[700UW]

UAL cant sell DEN routes, there are no routes to sell, it is not a slot controlled airport, US can add flights to DEN anytime they want.

 

[aerosmith]

Seems as though Mr. Bronner has some pretty deep pockets if some assets should become available.

 

[USFlyer]

Before the UAL folks come over here, let's just establish one fact. US is in no position to be picking at UAL's carcass! There, it's said, so hopefully the rest of the thread can be focused on other aspects of how this might affect US.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Before the UAL folks come over here, let's just establish one fact. US is in no position to be picking at UAL's carcass! There, it's said, so hopefully the rest of the thread can be focused on other aspects of how this might affect US.

I'll tell you what it's going to do. It's going to drive wages and benefits further into "Walmart" territory. Let's face it. Anything that perpetuates the trend of lowering the bar is just killing the prospects for everybody in the industry, even if in the short term there appears to be some sort of competitive (and emotional) advantage in seeing another airline suffer like UAIR has.

 

[Ch. 12]

I'll tell you what it's going to do. It's going to drive wages and benefits further into "Walmart" territory. Let's face it. Anything that perpetuates the trend of lowering the bar is just killing the prospects for everybody in the industry, even if in the short term there appears to be some sort of competitive (and emotional) advantage in seeing another airline suffer like UAIR has.

Strictly speaking on wages...

I wouldn't call it lowering the bar. It's more like adjusting it to reflect the economy and status of the industry. If the bar can only ever go up, how can carriers keep up with the expenses during low revenue periods (such as the current trend)?

We have to learn that wages cannot only keep going up but have to be flexible in the weakened economy. Carriers are paying boom economy rates in a recession. Does this make sense? Just b/c somebody would no longer be making over $20/hr to take reservations, that does not equal "Walmart territory". I would actually say that these are well above the market reference when looking at similar jobs in other industries.

 

[ktflyhome]

CH 12: Just what are the similar jobs in other industries???? :blink:

 

[skyflyr69]

CHP 12. ,
you hit the nail on the head. airline workers need a dose of reality in todays environment. With the average worker around 50 at U i see know job prospects on the outside for the MAJORITY.
And i don't see U getting ANY UAL stuff. Since the IAM and AFA really don't want to give in I see Chp.7 for U with the LCC's and maybe one or two legacy carriers picking at the carcass.

 

[SVQLBA]

UAL cant sell DEN routes, there are no routes to sell, it is not a slot controlled airport, US can add flights to DEN anytime they want.

... but gate space is an issue, so UAL could sell gate rights or sub-lease 'em. I believe Frontier was pushing hard for A concourse gates that UA ended up keeping. So U would have a bidding battle on its hands for those assets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Airline employee wages have long been at a premium compared to comparably graded jobs as defined by the Dept. of Labor. The reality is that the airline labor market was never deregulated when the domestic airline industry was deregulated in 1978. Airline labor costs are now being brought in check and it is a painful process, particularly for those carriers where it is being forced upon them at the same time they are fighting for their survival.

Airline wages will never return to the levels enjoyed in the 90s – which like much of the American economy was vastly unrealistic. Some carriers will have to overcompensate on cost cuts in order to survive while others will make a more gradual change. Defined pension benefits are likely gone from the industry; for carriers like US and UA, they will be eliminated in order to survive while carriers like Delta are eliminating defined pensions over time.

Airline careers are great for a couple years to see the world and learn to work with people but you probably will want to have a little chat with your kids if they start talking about wanting to work for an airline.

 

[geo1004]

Well put WorldTraveller.

 

[Bear96]

Airline careers are great for a couple years to see the world and learn to work with people but you probably will want to have a little chat with your kids if they start talking about wanting to work for an airline.

Ain't that the truth...

 

[SpinDoc]

CHP 12. ,
you hit the nail on the head. airline workers need a dose of reality in todays environment. With the average worker around 50 at U i see know job prospects on the outside for the MAJORITY.
And i don't see U getting ANY UAL stuff. Since the IAM and AFA really don't want to give in I see Chp.7 for U with the LCC's and maybe one or two legacy carriers picking at the carcass.

Sky:

ALPA is negotiating. As soon as they reach an
agreement with the company, the AFA will follow.
The CWA will likely work with the company
because they know most of their members
can't find work above $12.00 per hour outside
the company. The IAM is the only question mark
left, and we all know how the minority of their
members feel, as they are constantly posting
their negativity on these boards. US doesn't need
the IAM anyway. They can hire new maintenance
employees who actually want to do the job and
will be happy with profit sharing and other
performance based incentives.