Will AA pursue Alaskan?
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robbedagain
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Guess its ok for select posters to turn it into anything other than title forum n not ok for some of us. 
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eolesen
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Won't happen with any of the existing alliances given their single-cabin approach. That's not to say they won't form partnerships or even JV's with other airlines in the future, like they attempted with Westjet and Volaris, but every alliance formed to date has certain common features, primarily a mixed cabin. That's not in WN's model for doing business right now.robbedagain said:
That said, FWAAA's observation is worth noting. This isn't the "let's discuss anyone and everyone I feel like discussing" forum, and it gets a bit old letting it become a dumping ground...
WorldTraveler
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the rumors do in fact involve AA.
AS has said they aren't interested in a merger.
The west coast is clearly a major strategic area in the industry.
An acquisition involving any of the big 4 is not going to happen.
there are strategic rearrangements of the industry that are not only possible but likely - and the rumors indicate that they might be just as likely to happen between DL and WN as the gate swap that just took place between AA and UA at LAX.
WN needs aircraft right now, esp. to fully build out its network as a result of the fall of Wright and the acquisition of slots at DCA and LGA from AA/US. WN has also said that 2015 will mark the beginning of its own internal growth in the Caribbean which it has specifically said will be focused on S. Florida and Texas, key AA markets.
in each case, the connection to AA and to AS is apparent and the strategic reasons why DL and WN could very well be working together to each other's benefit are also obvious.
if you want to limit the topic solely to whether AA will buy AS, you might as well shut this thread down. AS has said clearly it isn't interested in mergers and they have given no indication they have changed their mind.
AS has said they aren't interested in a merger.
The west coast is clearly a major strategic area in the industry.
An acquisition involving any of the big 4 is not going to happen.
there are strategic rearrangements of the industry that are not only possible but likely - and the rumors indicate that they might be just as likely to happen between DL and WN as the gate swap that just took place between AA and UA at LAX.
WN needs aircraft right now, esp. to fully build out its network as a result of the fall of Wright and the acquisition of slots at DCA and LGA from AA/US. WN has also said that 2015 will mark the beginning of its own internal growth in the Caribbean which it has specifically said will be focused on S. Florida and Texas, key AA markets.
in each case, the connection to AA and to AS is apparent and the strategic reasons why DL and WN could very well be working together to each other's benefit are also obvious.
if you want to limit the topic solely to whether AA will buy AS, you might as well shut this thread down. AS has said clearly it isn't interested in mergers and they have given no indication they have changed their mind.
robbedagain
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I think that AS will strengthen an alliance with AA soon or perhaps they may join 1 world?
WorldTraveler
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valid thought, robbed.
but tell me why AS would do that now when they have steadfastly said their best financial results come from codesharing with multiple airlines and having no allegiance to any alliance.
but tell me why AS would do that now when they have steadfastly said their best financial results come from codesharing with multiple airlines and having no allegiance to any alliance.
robbedagain
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my guess is better treatment than what DL did to them better flight options esp with the intl connections just 2 of my guesses
WorldTraveler
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robbed,
companies don't have "feelings"
they act on what makes the best financial sense.
it isn't worth going into a he said-she said regarding AS-DL because it isn't going to change anything but AA, AS, and Dl will all do what is in their own best interests.
If there is any intersection where two can benefit by the same strategy, it will happen.
specific to AS, there is no reason to believe they have changed their policy of pursuing multiple partnerships.
companies don't have "feelings"
they act on what makes the best financial sense.
it isn't worth going into a he said-she said regarding AS-DL because it isn't going to change anything but AA, AS, and Dl will all do what is in their own best interests.
If there is any intersection where two can benefit by the same strategy, it will happen.
specific to AS, there is no reason to believe they have changed their policy of pursuing multiple partnerships.
Kev3188
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...Or maybe in this case "treatment" equates to "financial benefit."
WorldTraveler
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and you expected that either AS or DL would make a different decision?
whether AS realized it or not, DL had options to ensure it had feed and they have the same options with AA as they did with DL regarding serving as a codeshare partner, and, despite all the hoopla about AS and DL, there is still a long-term contract with performance requirements that won't go away unless one side or the other decides to buy its way out of the contract or the two decide to mutually terminate the contract - and based on what has happened so far, the cost DL is likely to demand is gates at key airports on the west coast.
And none of that affects what happens with AA and AS since there is nothing that I have ever read that prevents AA and AS from pushing their relationship even further; other than putting the AS code on some of US' network, there is little additional benefit that is going to come from the AA-AS relationship.
cutting DL in favor of growing a relationship with AS will cost AS money.
perhaps at some point, AS will decide it is worth it to pay DL to leave and then rebuild without their revenue.
whether AS realized it or not, DL had options to ensure it had feed and they have the same options with AA as they did with DL regarding serving as a codeshare partner, and, despite all the hoopla about AS and DL, there is still a long-term contract with performance requirements that won't go away unless one side or the other decides to buy its way out of the contract or the two decide to mutually terminate the contract - and based on what has happened so far, the cost DL is likely to demand is gates at key airports on the west coast.
And none of that affects what happens with AA and AS since there is nothing that I have ever read that prevents AA and AS from pushing their relationship even further; other than putting the AS code on some of US' network, there is little additional benefit that is going to come from the AA-AS relationship.
cutting DL in favor of growing a relationship with AS will cost AS money.
perhaps at some point, AS will decide it is worth it to pay DL to leave and then rebuild without their revenue.
Kev3188
Veteran
I expect the Eskimo has dome whatever due diligence it needed to before pursuing the strategy they have. It may cost them money, but the long term autonomy that comes with keeping their options open is likely worth it.
From whom, and at which "key airports?"
Demand?
From whom, and at which "key airports?"
WorldTraveler
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you would hope they have done their homework but since the common theme has been that DL couldn't grow because they don't have enough space at SEA to do so, there could well have been some miscalculations.
DL has pulled its code on several routes such as ATL-SEA where both carriers operate; since there are more and more markets from SEA where AS and DL compete, the effect is to force AS to deliver passengers on smaller and smaller markets which makes it not only easier for DL to get the fares it needs on AS' flights to feed its Asia routes (ie SNA and SMF are two markets which DL doesn't serve but which provide a decent amount of Asia revenue).
because of the performance guarantees, AS is forced to open up higher and higher fare buckets to DL passengers or default on the agreement which would allow DL to unilaterally collect the penalties.
Given that DL's hubs are far larger that AS flies to, it is far easier for DL to fulfill its requirements under the contract than it is for AS.
My guess is that AS and DL are talking about how to get out of the contract but that DL wants AS to either provide gates as part of the payment or accommodate plans that DL could implement in order to allow DL to acquire and coloate its gates, esp. at LAX and SEA - and possibly slots at SNA.
just theories but don't count them out.
Don't also be surprised if the cooperation that swamt is talking about doesn't involve benefits for both DL and Wn at AS' expense.
specific to AA, it just says that the benefit that AA would have to provide AS is far higher than a lot of people think given that DL is AS' largest interline partner based on revenue.
btw, thank you for your leadership on this forum with the cordial and respectful conversation.
DL has pulled its code on several routes such as ATL-SEA where both carriers operate; since there are more and more markets from SEA where AS and DL compete, the effect is to force AS to deliver passengers on smaller and smaller markets which makes it not only easier for DL to get the fares it needs on AS' flights to feed its Asia routes (ie SNA and SMF are two markets which DL doesn't serve but which provide a decent amount of Asia revenue).
because of the performance guarantees, AS is forced to open up higher and higher fare buckets to DL passengers or default on the agreement which would allow DL to unilaterally collect the penalties.
Given that DL's hubs are far larger that AS flies to, it is far easier for DL to fulfill its requirements under the contract than it is for AS.
My guess is that AS and DL are talking about how to get out of the contract but that DL wants AS to either provide gates as part of the payment or accommodate plans that DL could implement in order to allow DL to acquire and coloate its gates, esp. at LAX and SEA - and possibly slots at SNA.
just theories but don't count them out.
Don't also be surprised if the cooperation that swamt is talking about doesn't involve benefits for both DL and Wn at AS' expense.
specific to AA, it just says that the benefit that AA would have to provide AS is far higher than a lot of people think given that DL is AS' largest interline partner based on revenue.
btw, thank you for your leadership on this forum with the cordial and respectful conversation.
jimntx
Veteran
Poor Alaska! A well-loved airline by its passengers. You makes a profit, but DL vill DESTROY YOU if you do not fall into line and do vat ve order you to do. DL UBER ALLES! (much better than some wimpy "most trusted airline"slogan, don't you think?)
WorldTraveler
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the airline industry was deregulated 36 years ago, Jim.
No airline has any "right" to any airport.
the trend thruout deregulation has been consolidation and the creation of global networks among the legacy carriers - of which AS is one - and the largest domestic networksdec among all carriers.
It was a surprise to no one that DL was building an int'l gateway at SEA. DL signed an extensive codesharing deal with AS for AS to feed DL's int'l flights and gave AS the opportunity to grow its network in the eastern US thru an equal partnership.
It is not worth trying to "he said, she said" what went wrong but it hasn't worked. no one can argue with that.
AS continues to say they want to be an independent airline with multiple codeshare partners in a strategy that looks a lot like B6.
Problem for AS is that B6 does what it does at JFK and BOS where there is a whole lot more int'l traffic and where their strategy can work alongside other carriers including AA and DL.
the chances are high that AS and DL can coexist at SEA but the high fares that AS has enjoyed will likely fall because of the capacity that has entered the market and DL's intention to not only feed its int'l flights but have a strong enough presence in the local west coast and SEA markets to ensure long term success for its int'l operation.
AS made its decision and time well tell whether it was the right one. based on history in the airline industry, there is ample reason to doubt they will be as well off as they are now.
If AA can help AS achieve its goals and offset the losses that AS will likely suffer as a result of its conflict with DL, then the two should partner.
It's not rocket science, it's not personal, and it's not based on emotion.
it's business.
and the AS-DL competition at SEA is getting ample coverage in the press, local and national.
No airline has any "right" to any airport.
the trend thruout deregulation has been consolidation and the creation of global networks among the legacy carriers - of which AS is one - and the largest domestic networksdec among all carriers.
It was a surprise to no one that DL was building an int'l gateway at SEA. DL signed an extensive codesharing deal with AS for AS to feed DL's int'l flights and gave AS the opportunity to grow its network in the eastern US thru an equal partnership.
It is not worth trying to "he said, she said" what went wrong but it hasn't worked. no one can argue with that.
AS continues to say they want to be an independent airline with multiple codeshare partners in a strategy that looks a lot like B6.
Problem for AS is that B6 does what it does at JFK and BOS where there is a whole lot more int'l traffic and where their strategy can work alongside other carriers including AA and DL.
the chances are high that AS and DL can coexist at SEA but the high fares that AS has enjoyed will likely fall because of the capacity that has entered the market and DL's intention to not only feed its int'l flights but have a strong enough presence in the local west coast and SEA markets to ensure long term success for its int'l operation.
AS made its decision and time well tell whether it was the right one. based on history in the airline industry, there is ample reason to doubt they will be as well off as they are now.
If AA can help AS achieve its goals and offset the losses that AS will likely suffer as a result of its conflict with DL, then the two should partner.
It's not rocket science, it's not personal, and it's not based on emotion.
it's business.
and the AS-DL competition at SEA is getting ample coverage in the press, local and national.
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