Also, ATA, formerly American Trans Air, was nearly bankrupt late last year, rescued by an ATSB loan guarantee and a bond offering.mweiss said:That's funny! But it turns out that the question isn't even correct.
F9 is having profitability problems right now, too.
WN is making money because they had enough to begin with that they were able to hedge; otherwise, they'd be losing right now, too.
B6 has extremely high aircraft utilization; many of their A320s spend the night in the air instead of RON.
B6 and FL both have junior workforces and new airplanes.
HP has a lot of redeyes as well as a very low-paid workforce.
I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of cav's responses. Wonders never cease!
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Why Would You Not Support The New Plan?
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Dear USA320Pilot:
I believe a debate is an occurance where you share your opinion, and listen to others opinions, and then respond to what they have said. Generally, these opinions are supported by facts and other arguments based in reality (i.e. Fact A, Fact B, Assumption C, result in Opinion D). For example, my opinion that US Airways will face a cash crisis in October 2004 was based on the facts of the average cash burn rate at the time of the statement. I fully delineated my opinion.
You, however, do not respond to other posters opinions with counter-facts which support your arguments. Instead you repeat whatever it is you are saying over and over.
For example, some posters posed the question, how are "Expressed" station agents going to be able to take less than $13/hour. How much more can they give?
You gave no response to this. You say they must accept America West contracts. Well, my friend, life isn't that simple. While many people prepare for potential financial setbacks, most are not prepared to cut their annual salary in half for the remainder of their career. You say they should go out and just find a new job. Well, in case you haven't noticed, these are not exactly the best of times - new jobs may be difficult to come by.
The issue is that if you want folks to debate with you, you need to actually read what they say and respond to it, rather than repeating your mantra over and over.
I believe a debate is an occurance where you share your opinion, and listen to others opinions, and then respond to what they have said. Generally, these opinions are supported by facts and other arguments based in reality (i.e. Fact A, Fact B, Assumption C, result in Opinion D). For example, my opinion that US Airways will face a cash crisis in October 2004 was based on the facts of the average cash burn rate at the time of the statement. I fully delineated my opinion.
You, however, do not respond to other posters opinions with counter-facts which support your arguments. Instead you repeat whatever it is you are saying over and over.
For example, some posters posed the question, how are "Expressed" station agents going to be able to take less than $13/hour. How much more can they give?
You gave no response to this. You say they must accept America West contracts. Well, my friend, life isn't that simple. While many people prepare for potential financial setbacks, most are not prepared to cut their annual salary in half for the remainder of their career. You say they should go out and just find a new job. Well, in case you haven't noticed, these are not exactly the best of times - new jobs may be difficult to come by.
The issue is that if you want folks to debate with you, you need to actually read what they say and respond to it, rather than repeating your mantra over and over.
usairways_vote_NO
Veteran
- Sep 9, 2002
- 1,882
- 57
Funguy2funguy2 said:
heres some advice 767jetz gave to me:
"usairways_vote_NO,
Don't let him get to you. He is so far in outerspace it's hard to comprehend. Everybody knows it. You can't reason with an unreasonable person, so don't even try. There is no credibility.
He is blissful in his ignorance. And the scary part is that he actually believes himself. He really thinks that he is more insightful than everyone else. So you will never get through. In his mind everyone else is the problem. It never occurs to him that it might be him.
Things that make you go hmmmmmm... "
end quote
I have to admit USA320Pilot does get to me he comes on here says he wants to debate then he refuses to debate, he says he reads all the posts then tells you he doesn't read all the posts.
He posts his mantra over and over as fact but never proves it as true. If you have a different view as him he tells you to quit.
He is the most hypocritical and manipulative poster on this board, he says he just posts his mantra and rarely reads the resulting responses, though we all know he must read them to stroke his ego, even though most don't believe what he says. I really don't think he can think for himself he just has a set dialogue and script that he never veers from. Is it fear of the unknown? I don't know but he has such fear and disgust ot the words "usairways vote no" he will not even acknowledge they exist.
Thanks for the advice...
I don't let USA320Pilot get to me anymore. Sometimes, USA320Pilot brings up a valid argument. However, I think its foolish to ask for a debate, and not even seem to understand what a debate is. I think I explained it, and I directed it to USA320Pilot in such a way, as to hopefully catch his attention as he is skimming past posts.
Of course, USA320Pilot might not have so many posts to skim past if he didn't have to skim past all of the posts asking him not to repeat himself over and over...
I come here to learn new things about the aviation industry, and engage in a lively debate. I have no trouble calling USA320Pilot out when he's wrong (or basing arguments on theories from outer space, in my opinion). In this case, the fact that he doesn't seem to respond, or only responds selectively seems to preclude any potential debate.
I don't let USA320Pilot get to me anymore. Sometimes, USA320Pilot brings up a valid argument. However, I think its foolish to ask for a debate, and not even seem to understand what a debate is. I think I explained it, and I directed it to USA320Pilot in such a way, as to hopefully catch his attention as he is skimming past posts.
Of course, USA320Pilot might not have so many posts to skim past if he didn't have to skim past all of the posts asking him not to repeat himself over and over...
I come here to learn new things about the aviation industry, and engage in a lively debate. I have no trouble calling USA320Pilot out when he's wrong (or basing arguments on theories from outer space, in my opinion). In this case, the fact that he doesn't seem to respond, or only responds selectively seems to preclude any potential debate.
1. Why are low cost competitors making money and every legacy airline losing billions of dollars?
Productivity plain and simple. Legacy carriers are still straddled with regulation era work mentalities.
2. If US Airways continues to lose money and violates the terms of the loan guarantee, what is the likely outcome for the company?
Depends, if someone viable enough desires our assets enough, they will be sold off to pay the creditors. What remains will probably carry the US name, but NOT be US. Mesa might buy the rights to the name and restart it as a LCC
3. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and elects to execute a formal reorganization, what’s the likely outcome for each labor group?
The likely route would be to seek the support of the "primary" labor groups, and then replace or outsource the remainder. No offense, but with the pilots and Mechanics on board, the rest can be replaced/outsourced with varying degrees of trouble. In order of difficulty in replacment: CSA's followed by Flight attendants, followed by Bagagge Handlers, followed by Fleet service.
4. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and liquidates, what benefits do employees receive?
You can seel your old work items on EBay to collectiors, hold onto the best stuff for awhile to allow the value to rise.
5. If US Airways fails, what are your specific job options?
I would prefer to keep flying, but Airport Operations is something that would keep me happy and at home.
Productivity plain and simple. Legacy carriers are still straddled with regulation era work mentalities.
2. If US Airways continues to lose money and violates the terms of the loan guarantee, what is the likely outcome for the company?
Depends, if someone viable enough desires our assets enough, they will be sold off to pay the creditors. What remains will probably carry the US name, but NOT be US. Mesa might buy the rights to the name and restart it as a LCC
3. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and elects to execute a formal reorganization, what’s the likely outcome for each labor group?
The likely route would be to seek the support of the "primary" labor groups, and then replace or outsource the remainder. No offense, but with the pilots and Mechanics on board, the rest can be replaced/outsourced with varying degrees of trouble. In order of difficulty in replacment: CSA's followed by Flight attendants, followed by Bagagge Handlers, followed by Fleet service.
4. If US Airways enters bankruptcy and liquidates, what benefits do employees receive?
You can seel your old work items on EBay to collectiors, hold onto the best stuff for awhile to allow the value to rise.
5. If US Airways fails, what are your specific job options?
I would prefer to keep flying, but Airport Operations is something that would keep me happy and at home.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
USA320pilot,USA320Pilot said:
Losing more money than anyone, huh? How about this article:
"(Reuters) - United Airlines said on Monday it will report a modest profit for May in its monthly operating report and that its passenger unit revenue grew by 7 percent from the same month a year ago.
In a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, bankrupt United Airlines said its unit costs fell 15 percent for the month from the figures posted in May 2003. It added that its bookings for June and July were strong."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way... you asked me to comment on your articles, but when I did there was no response from you. Go back to the last post on page 5 of this thread to find my response. Add to that the above article and then get back to me.
One more question for you... How many months either during or since CH11 did US post a modest profit?
Respectfully??????????????????????
Whatever.
jimntx
Veteran
ATA is not out of the financial woods yet. They have asked their flight attendants (and, I think, pilots also) to forego scheduled raises for 2 years. A friend of mine who flies for them said they were told in meetings that the company has the least amount of cash of any of the LCCs. Don't know for sure about that, but the wage freeze request is a fact.funguy2 said:
