Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[Tim Nelson]

Socplatt or Bartz....please start providing language and references. If you plan on doing the same thing here as you do in all of your emails, at the convention next week then you will have alot more to worry about than little ole me.

Btw why did you separate your own storekeepers from ramp? You need to educate yourself on the nmb.

 

[Socplat13]

Socplat,
Practically everything, if not everything, you just said was not true. Instead of your fairy tale, i ask again for you to reference any of what you said. You butchered both the wn language and the language in ta1.
Please break down this 20,000 figure as well. Since u keep mentioning that number then the onus is on you to tell us specifically what this number includes.
Also, please share the language that supports your comment "ta1 mandated that no employee would be displaced from their location due to outsourcing"?

1. Protections Against Involuntary Furlough

a. The Company may contract out work to outside vendors at the following airports: Austin (AUS), Boston (BOS), Baltimore-Washington (BWI), Cleveland (CLE), Washington National (DCA), Dallas-Fort Worth (DFW), Fort Lauderdale (FLL), Guam (GUM), Honolulu (HNL), New York Kennedy (JFK), Las Vegas (LAS), New York LaGuardia (LGA), Orlando (MCO), Minneapolis (MSP), New Orleans (MSY), Portland (PDX), Philadelphia (PHL), Phoenix (PHX), Pittsburgh (PIT), San Diego (SAN), Seattle (SEA), Orange County (SNA), and Tampa (TPA).

b. The preceding subsection 2.a is subject to the restriction that such contracting out may not directly cause an involuntary furlough for employees employed as of the effective date of this Agreement at the airport(s) where the contracting out occurs. “Involuntary furlough” means displacement to the system or to locations within the same geographic point in order to maintain active employment.

Ok, Little man, read above. Wait, let me explain because it may be too much for your little mind to process. Do you see paragraph b above? That says any contracting out cannot cause displacement to the system or to another location in the point. Meaning, in case you cannot make the necessary deduction, employees cannot be moved out of the location due to subcontracting. Case dismissed.

Next, I will teach you about the scope in the Southwest contract, but only if you ask me nicely.

 

[737823]

But at DOS the BOS bag room was subject to outsourcing, I mean heck BOS has nearly 50 daily mainline UAL departures and will have zero scope come 2016.

Josh

 

[Socplat13]

But at DOS the BOS bag room was subject to outsourcing, I mean heck BOS has nearly 50 daily mainline UAL departures and will have zero scope come 2016.

Josh

Josh,
Do you realize that the whole sub-CO operation in BOS can be outsourced TODAY along with the entire UAX operation? Factor in the pilots deal that allows UAX to fly up to 76 seat RJs and UA's firm order to buy 100 Embraer 175s and place them in business markets (BOS) and you have yourself a big problem. You guys act as if BOS has scope now. Yeah a little bit but if UA exercised its current rights to outsource there would be a blood-letting in BOS and many other places in UAs system.

Never mind that little inconvenient fact, right? Never mind 15,000+ sub-CO jobs are on the line. Never mind...

 

[737823]

Unlikely UA would transition a significant amount to UAX so quickly nor would they outsource the unprotected sCO work. Again, CO was unorganized but at no point had their management indicated they would outsource agent work enmasse. Yes they did attack several stations leading upto the IBT drive but doubtful they would pull off such a thing. You and the NC wanted to instill fear in the membership and have them vote in this POS it is so obvious all the district wanted was an agreement that was merely acceptable so they can begin collecting dues from sCO agents.

Josh

 

[737823]

And the DL FAs against organizing are having a blast poking fun at this agreement the IAM "negotiated" at UAL.

Seriously Ira, Sito, Rich Delaney and the AGCs should work under this garbage they expect the UA membership to work under.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Joe, thats terrible language. Especially compared to what the ramp contract already has.

Instead of complete scope in Bos, you guys bartered it away and we have to conclude that the company will take full advantage by perhaps contracting out lead work or perhaps the bagroom and for sure there will be no overtime until the "remaining" members in those 23 stations are finally shown the door in a couple years as they shut out the lights. At any rate, you reduced your answer to 23 stations. Your previous statement that i questioned you on said "ta1 said that no employee will be displaced due to outsourcing. What about the other 65 stations? You mention reservations but ta1 guaranteed that united would be the only major airline that will allow foreign call centers. What up with that?

 

[Socplat13]

Joe, thats terrible language. Especially compared to what the ramp contract already has.

Instead of complete scope in Bos, you guys bartered it away and we have to conclude that the company will take full advantage by perhaps contracting out lead work or perhaps the bagroom and for sure there will be no overtime until the "remaining" members in those 23 stations are finally shown the door in a couple years as they shut out the lights. At any rate, you reduced your answer to 23 stations. Your previous statement that i questioned you on said "ta1 said that no employee will be displaced due to outsourcing. What about the other 65 stations? You mention reservations but ta1 guaranteed that united would be the only major airline that will allow foreign call centers. What up with that?

Josh,
Now you say UA will not outsource the sub-CO and UAX work in BOS. Why then negotiate any protections? Just trust UA I assume? Not smart.
Little Man,
I just showed you in the 23 stations that no employee, including PCE and Stores, can be displaced from their location. You didn't know that, and that's really a shame since you pose as some kind of leader. BOS does not have complete scope now, along with many, many other locations.

Under TA1 the whole gained more protections. As for the non hubs and non T2 stations, they were protected by seniority based protections of 1999--no furlough for any reason--and 2006--no furlough due to outsourcing. . At least these people have options to maintain their employment if a station goes all UAX. No contract in the industry protected more work and more people, none.

Your beloved WN scope protects no work, just people.

Contract out lead work? Are you off your meds? Why do that when no lead can be displaced from the location?

Show me one contract in the industry that disallows an employee from being displaced from their location?

Every single existing Reservations job was protected under pure scope language in TA1.

Again you display your true ignorance regarding these issues.

 

[737823]

Good luck to UA sending Express to DEN, IAH, LAX, SFO from here. Seriously, no I don't believe they are keeping the work in house out of the goodness of their hearts, they are waiting for a joint CBA and integrating the two workgroups. Again the NC has given away tremendous leverage as it is, unlikely they will be able to make version 2.0 much better.

Josh

 

[T5towbar]

Unlikely UA would transition a significant amount to UAX so quickly nor would they outsource the unprotected sCO work. Again, CO was unorganized but at no point had their management indicated they would outsource agent work enmasse. Yes they did attack several stations leading upto the IBT drive but doubtful they would pull off such a thing. You and the NC wanted to instill fear in the membership and have them vote in this POS it is so obvious all the district wanted was an agreement that was merely acceptable so they can begin collecting dues from sCO agents.

Josh

That's correct. No way the company can outsource the whole sCO operation that quickly. That would be operational suicide. Especially at the three hubs. That wasn't going to happen. During the merger, (before any elections) the only thing was in doubt was in Cargo. And maybe Chelsea. JR knows about the value of the EWR operation (since he himself ran it); IAH; and CLE and what value they brought to the table, and FL knew about the line stations, and what was going to stay or go. Our workforce is a very productive one, but we were getting paid less than sUA (before their BK) The company went ahead and "harmonized" because if sUA didn't have a function, than we on the sCO shouldn't (even if it is profitable). Our contract had an expiration date, and once that happened, that's when Cargo went.

For the last few weeks, there has been auditors looking at the operations as a whole. Rumors were widespread about outsourcing certain functions, but I think that they came with the point that it would not be worth the hassle or cost to piece out functions in the hub. (Nothing official was said, though) So that's why they are coming up with a new staffing system.


I'm still waiting for answers to both of my questions...........

 

[Socplat13]

Which questions? For me?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Joe, what you showed us was 23 stations where work will be eliminated entirely in a couple years. Those are part of your "guaranteed 20,000'. Lmao.
Also save all the bull #### how 15,000 others have "no furlough for any reason" because you left off the part "must travel". Lmao

Usairways has the same "bait and switch" no furlough "guarantees" for 1999 and lower employees but they arent worth dick as usairways contracted out 62 stations after your boy thiede said the no furlough guarantee will deter the company from closing At any rate, wn protects work so it needs the people.
Btw, if the company took full advantage of ta1, there could be less than 10,000 members out of 28,000 left in 3 years. And since the cle hub work was not protected, all ord itself could be gone with cle being the midwestern mainline hub.

Why pay dues with such a ridiculous ta? Cripes, even the pay would have sucked compared to delta and bankrupt amr.

At any rate, didnt the membership already tell you that the ta blowed? You need to look in the mirror and listen to the membership instead of picking debates with someone who couldnt even fill out a survey. Desperate Joe? You guys should have remembered some of the things you said. Lmao.

 

[T5towbar]

Yes. Since you said that Tim is a dangerous influence on the membership.

And what about the situation with IAD? No one has even answered that question. Is there a tacit agreement between DL 141 & 142 to keep the dues flowing? If Express is protected, why isn't that resolved? Do we get that work? Or do Air Wisconsin keeps it? And gutting Express will definitely kill jobs, especially CLE and some of our stations who have M/L employees who still work Express. That should be our work.

I asked one basic question to every union official and anyone in the know which no seems willing not to answer.. Why negotiate DOWNWARD from a BANKRUPTCY contract? WHY wasn't that the baseline from negotiations should have started. We were told that the superior IAM contract was going to be improved into a "Leading Industry Contract".

 

[Tim Nelson]

Joe,
Why do u say the work on bos ramp isnt protected? U suggesting they can contract out the bagroom?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Joe, why separate stores?