Why Tim Nelson is Dangerous to IAM-represented employees at United Airlines

[john john]

john john,
if US has foreign call centers, is that really a US employee on the other end of the phone?

US can outsource Foreign Language calls

 

[737823]

AA has several overseas res offices and my understanding is they are AA employees and covered under CBAs with unions/labor organizations in their countries.

AA is down to two domestic res offices-SERO in RDU and SRO in DFW, plus home based agents. In the past decade they've closed BDL (Windsor CT), CVG, STL, TUS, and possibly others.

Unlike UA if you are just an average joe (no elite status) and call 800-433-7300 you will be speaking to a US based employee.

Josh

 

[john john]

john john,
if US has foreign call centers, is that really a US employee on the other end of the phone?

YES! IF YOU CALL USAIRWAYS RESEVATIONS YOU GET A USAIRWAYS PASSENGER SERVICE EMPLOYEE ………

 

[737823]

John John,
Are US city ticket office employees covered under your CWA CBA?

Josh

 

[john john]

Yes

 

[WorldTraveler]

where does US still have CTOs?

 

[737823]

What stateside locations does US have? AA is only Coral Gables, AA Arena (Miami), and NYC. Many inner city locations throughout Caribbean, South & Central America.

Josh

 

[T5towbar]

towbar,
All of those new aircraft are not going to be delivered in the next two years which is more than long enough for the integration process for labor to be completed.

The aircraft deliveries are over nearly a period far longer than that.

Cabin refurbs for domestic a/c can be justified with less than 5 years remaining on an aircraft; int'l might be a little longer but UA is also trying to standardize its products post-merger.

UA is not going to grow its mainline fleet by hundreds of aircraft.

If you look at UA's traffic report over the past year, you will see that they are reducing mainline capacity in order to push up their RASM, which they have to do to cover the cost of their increased labor costs. UA will undoubtedly want to grow if AA/US succeed at merging but UA must be able to increase their revenues in order to justify that growth and that didn't happen for much of the time after the CO-UA merger.

We know that. We're not talking about growing the fleet, just replacing what's needed to be replaced. Aircraft will be replaced in time, but we are talking about what's happening right now. The Airbus fleet will be around for a lot longer then expected. But new aircraft are coming online. 739's are coming into the fleet every other month. (I believe 5 or so more to go from a 20 something plane order, IIRC) And like I said again, only the older 757 (not the PS birds) are leaving. Why all of the pilot recalls then? They have to fly something. Like I said before, the pilots aren't going to make the same mistake that sUA pilots were forced with during their BK. The got close to a DL type contract, I think.

I'm just going by what I see happening at this moment. As far as labor, the goal is to get JCBA's for all other groups by the end of the year. Hence the rush to get this TA done. We still have FA's and MX (and other smaller groups) to go. My opinion is they are trying to lowball us so they will have more money for them. My other opinion is that this won't get get done by the end of the year either, because this management underestimated the toxic relationship between management and labor. The history bears reason, and Jeff and Company should have got on top of this soon after the merger was announced. They waited and waited, instead of taking proactive measures. Big mistake. That's why Parker did what he had to do with AA to avoid making that very mistake. (But Parker should have dealt with his own employees first before courting AA's employees) and DL - NW got their pilots on board as soon as possible. Smart thinking!

 

[jet job]

I think if one is going to try to incorporate express work then it must be done in the context of mainline work, i.e., set mainline work at a minimum seating aircraft. Models like this already exist at US AIRWAYS. At US AIRWAYS, the ramp contract defines scope as any aircraft within US AIRWAYS, inc, that is configured with more than 69 seats. That's the model to use without the drop dead dates. Nothing is being built upon when a union just passes a TA by trading short two year terms with drop dead dates for political gain.

In fact, the 69 seats as part of scope will nip all of the CRJ76 in the bud. At any rate, makes no sense to just punt this to ALPA. BTW, United is hiring hundreds of pilots because it is adding aircraft. Leverage is on the side of he workers. We need to stop the insanity of the union leadership by building upon the current United contract instead of stripping scope from 24 of its stations, and leaving another 60+ stations with no scope.

Nelson your lack of understanding of current art II is phenomenal. I suggest you read it. Then perhaps we can have a dialog and by the way the new aircraft are replacements. The pilots are only being recalled from furlough to replace those retiring. Placing a number of seats on aircraft is artificial, feel good, and something the company can get around. Your rage against the machine is a little over the top, and is getting old. I asked you to write language a few pages back, but you have not done so. Belly up or back off

 

[Tim Nelson]

Jet jobs,
Alpa didnt think spelling out aircraft size was artificial.
At any rate, im not the one claiming that you protected one single express job after a couple years so the onus is upon you to prove it. Putting two year drop dead language for short term political gain and to start dues flow for sCo asa isnt interesting to me and wasnt interesting to 80% oc the membership.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Also, jet jobs, if you look at the economic forecast for the domestic airline industry, passenger demand, and apply the aircraft orders to the available information, then you would understand that the future forecast to meet this demand will mean that 41% of the aircraft orders for usa airlines wont be to replace aircraft but to add aircraft. According to a published wall street report that references boeings and airbus projections domestically.
United will stay competitive and wont give up that market share.
Your downplaying of mainline is disturbing and for you to focus express fears as the primary concern is myth when you compromise 90% of the stations by subjecting 82 stations to contract out for mainline.
Focus on mainline because they arent parking them and the airline will grow to keep its market share as passenger demand increases as expected.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Of course with alpas agreement to reduce the hard cap on uax from 588 currently down to 450, thats another positive.

Whatever the case, hopefully TA2 wont rob 25 stations of current mainline work under scope. Mainline scope must expand to more stations.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The fear mongering with the idea that somehow united is beefing up express over the life of a ta (presumably 2014-2017) and scaling back or stalling mainline is myth.
The airlines are trying to get rid of inefficient 50 seaters and replace them with 76 seaters but with strong alpa language that finally tips the scales towards labor.
Historically, alpa success started with delta. Delta will go from a fleet of 650 express jets down to 420. And it had to get the 717 to do it to protect alpa jobs.

At ual, imo, the alpa deal is better. It brings the total rj fleet from 588 down to 450, but puts more of a stranglehold on the company that will force the company to bring in one narrow body mainline for some additional triggers. Therefore the overall capacity of ual express will be reduced unless ual wants to hit the scope choke and add more of the 76 seaters within the 450 limit.
Additionally, the hub to hub flying with rj will be further limited. The 900 statute miles also is interesting since "statute' is much better.
Im preparing a comprehensive project to smash down the myth that bartz and atkinson are trying to manufacture that somehow ual will be going to a more express operation.
To be sure, it would be nice to enhance the current express protections but not at the cost of mainline scope or just phantom express drop dead dates.

 

[737823]

Tim,
I agree but UA has some atrocious UAX routes like ATL-DEN, AUS-SFO, ORD-MIA, etc it's outrageous. Even at ORD it's primarily an RJ operation same is true at DEN and IAD. But based on what your have said, I think you agree scope for express is important-along with mainline work.

Socplat13 is trying to scare people, no way UA could transition transcontinental and long range flying on the coasts to Express.

Josh

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
I agree but UA has some atrocious UAX routes like ATL-DEN, AUS-SFO, ORD-MIA, etc it's outrageous. Even at ORD it's primarily an RJ operation same is true at DEN and IAD. But based on what your have said, I think you agree scope for express is important-along with mainline work.

Socplat13 is trying to scare people, no way UA could transition transcontinental and long range flying on the coasts to Express.

Josh

All in all, alpa has reduced the total capacity of express since it restricts ual express flying more than delta. So although its patterned bargaining, its much harder for ual to park the gas guzzling 50 seater than it is for delta. Thats the scope choke. What will ual do? Will if they bring in more of the 76 seaters within the 450 total express limit then it has to bring in more mainline. Although the wall street journal article today indicated that 41% of all mainline jet orders domestically will be used to increase capacity as opposed to replace older jets. So maybe ual chooses to increase mainline jets instead of not crossing the scope choke.

The iam member most certainly needs to be a part of express work with work covenants and protections that have something more than time bomb protections that only serve the short term political gain of current officers.