Why there will never be a T.A.

[WeAAsles]

I don’t see that happening, in particular if something comes out to be ratified.
Let’s say for example it is a 7-5 vote to bring it to the members....walking out of that vote the NC should want to show unity.
IMO the biggest issue with a vote by the NC (fleet) will be that on the TWU side ...due to their structure....the FLEET NC has changed many times. With those changes, the newly added members of the committee will not have the knowledge of what took place between the IAM/TWU to reach many of the decisions on what was TA’d the first 14 months of talks. Most were not present 6 months prior to that when the Committees were first formed and formulated the comprehensive proposal in dec 15.
TWU presidents from Bos, Lax are only ones still there from beginning. All others just joined in March 2018. So when casting a vote, how will they be able to do it objectively?
On the IAM side....all original 6 are still there.

I’m not sure it should be that way frankly? Hear me out. Let me use ORD as an example. Say the Company hadn’t backed off Deicing and there was so many other things that you guys agreed to pass it over that Presidents objection. Deicing is a 9 month operation in ORD accounting for quite a lot of actually year round headcount. How could he sell that to his Membership without looking like a complete sellout?

I think it’s ok for those President’s to be honest and say to their Membership that they don’t support the deal and that they voted against it as long as they do it in a civil manner. It would be honestly extremely hard for me to play pretend under that circumstance. And not that I don’t understand the overall philosophy.

On the other item those new Presidents should be listening to and learning from Andre Sutton and Tim Hughes. If they’re not shame on them. And maybe they should also pick up a phone and talk to some of you guys as well.

 

[ALUS78]

I don’t know if it’s as simple as trading off but if the Airline draws down a location for whatever reason they could be ramping up in another and in the past it might warrant the in house staffing before all these subcontractors came into being.

Al you go back to a time where almost none of them even existed. I’ve felt the squeeze for my entire 23 year career. I can only imagine your 40 years. BTW Al what month do you hit 40 if you haven’t hit it yet?

This past april

 

[WeAAsles]

This past april

Congratulations. Again man I was still just 12 years old.

 

[Kev3188]

I just hope the Association puts out publicly how each AGC and President voted although I honestly doubt they will?

Why not? It's a completely reasonable expectation.

This past april

Mazel tov!

 

[WeAAsles]

Why not? It's a completely reasonable expectation.

For a mixture of reasons involving both Unity and my guess for some Political expediency.

I’m sure some will inform their Membership either way?

 

[Kev3188]

For a mixture of reasons involving both Unity and my guess for some Political expediency.

I’m sure some will inform their Membership either way?

Maybe. I would like to think elected leaders have the courage of their convictions. Simply going-along-to-get-along isn't optimal.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

The company has you horrified. You act as though anyone who see's something differently than you has been brainwashed by the company. "Digital Trolls" WTF, why don't you give the Association more credit than that. You're a staunch supporter, trust them, give them a chance.
Don't be so damn scared of the company!

Actually-- I DO give the association credit... It's the 'anonymous avatars' that are not verifiable as either member, or even an airline worker, that I will continue to question. The Association speaks through proper channels, and communications... not some "guess who I am", "guess what my motives are" agenda. The Asscotiation does not need cartoon characters in public forums to communicate. Especially, a forum that we know with 100% certainty the company monitors!

Sorry if you don't like it, but it has to done dude!

 

[Kev3188]

The company has you horrified. You act as though anyone who see's something differently than you has been brainwashed by the company. "Digital Trolls" WTF, why don't you give the Association more credit than that. You're a staunch supporter, trust them, give them a chance.
Don't be so damn scared of the company!

+1

The whole idea of Labor as a victim is a big reason why we never move forward.

 

[Kev3188]

Especially, a forum that we know with 100% certainty the company monitors!

Let 'em.

No one here is doing anything wrong. No reason to lurk around in the (cyber) shadows.

 

[WeAAsles]

Maybe. I would like to think elected leaders have the courage of their convictions. Simply going-along-to-get-along isn't optimal.

I’m sure like typical Human Beings some do and some don’t. Life is not one size fits all.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Let 'em.

No one here is doing anything wrong. No reason to lurk around in the (cyber) shadows.

Never said anyone was doing anything wrong. It's perfectly legal for the company to monitor these boards, and to formulate a perspective to apply to negotiation strategies. If they didn't, they would be idiots! The question is, does it behoove the membership to circumvent the NC in these forums? Does it convey any strategies to the company?

I've been reading for a couple of months, and if I were the company, I would do just exactly what they just did with the "Last Chance TA-- unofficial offer"...

You guys pretty much provided the entire script for them!

P.S. Does DA managment read AA forums?

>SPIT<

 

[NYer]

Never said anyone was doing anything wrong. It's perfectly legal for the company to monitor these boards, and to formulate a perspective to apply to negotiation strategies. If they didn't, they would be idiots! The question is, does it behoove the membership to circumvent the NC in these forums? Does it convey any strategies to the company?

I've been reading for a couple of months, and if I were the company, I would do just exactly what they just did with the "Last Chance TA-- unofficial offer"...

You guys pretty much provided the entire script for them!

P.S. Does DA managment read AA forums?

>SPIT<

Give us a break. The tactics they're using are the same things they've done in the past. No one has rewritten the script on any of this. The startling part is that is such a surprise to so many on here.

10 non-descript people on a blog, some say is dead, somehow telegraphed an unknown strategy to a multi-billion dollar corporation that's been in negotiations for a decade? C'mon now.

 

[Jester]

I have a question for anybody that will answer honestly on the LAA side?

Why do you folks (most of you anyway) hate the LUS folks?


Why do you folks (most of you anyway) blame the LUS folks for your bankruptcy agreement?


Why would you folks (most of you anyway) rather bring us up to your insurance premiums rather than fighting to come down to ours and having more extra money in your check?

Having once been in PHX, and keeping in contact with various former Phoenicians who escaped through the joint US/AA network, clearly there would be far more animosity from the LAA side against the LUS ramp agents.

Most of the vitriol stems from AA pre-merger Management's opposition to joining with US and to continue the failed Cornerstone Strategy-- this mentality has carried through that LUS brought little to the deal, and now painful accommodations must be made to LAA labor groups. The stalled JCBA has been laid blame at the feet of LUS/IAM as for many it will be a net concessionary contract, while it will be a significant improvement for LAA/TWU bankrupt contract. The dislike/distrust of the former Tempe Boys and their management team replacing LAA people has not engendered good will either. Phrases of "Useless Air" and "I'll Ask Management" typifies views of LAA rank-and-file.

Personally, I think the LAA has demonstrated a real lack of respect for their merger partner with LUS, which should not be surprising as AA always being the larger bully in prior mergers with Reno Air, AirCal, TCA and TWA.

 

[Kev3188]

Give us a break. The tactics they're using are the same things they've done in the past. No one has rewritten the script on any of this. The startling part is that is such a surprise to so many on here.

10 non-descript people on a blog, some say is dead, somehow telegraphed an unknown strategy to a multi-billion dollar corporation that's been in negotiations for a decade? C'mon now.

^THIS^

 

[Jester]

Never said anyone was doing anything wrong. It's perfectly legal for the company to monitor these boards, and to formulate a perspective to apply to negotiation strategies. If they didn't, they would be idiots! The question is, does it behoove the membership to circumvent the NC in these forums? Does it convey any strategies to the company?

Allow me to interject-- the purpose of negotiations would be to obtain a deal between the Company and the union(s). Ideally, it would be something to benefit both sides and to serve the interests of the Membership.

Should the Company (and the Association) observe the stated desires of the Membership within this forum, and craft an agreement for which satisfies the work group as expressed through a majority vote, then I do not see the problem in conveying our views. This should not be viewed the N.C. ability to abdicate or vacate any responsibility for the terms of the JCBA, as they are the presumed experts.

Much as we do not have direct democracy within this nation, we have a representative republic for which we elect experts to create policy, but still very much subject to public opinion.