Why Should Unions Cooperate?

[Smartest Loser]

It’s not important what U is saying…it’s what they are NOT saying.

1. No mention of shared sacrifice (Mgt. Group)
2. No mention of crude oil being at 42 dollars a barrel. (Highest ever)
3. No mention of the latest consulting groups finding about NON-LABOR
COST
4. No mention of the original bankruptcy’s plan about being profitable in
2005.
5. No mention about pay back to the employees for turning the place around
6. No mention about a future with the company
7. No major reinvestment back into the corporation

As you can see, I have listed just a few items that must be taboo and are to be avoided at all cost. Lets start answering the hard questions….!! Honestly.

 

[mwereplanes]

Inside C11 the management loses a lot of control. They must ask the judge for most everything they want to do. This is the main reason why Lakefield does NOT want to enter C11 again.

The article states that the employees have no control. Of course we have control. We do not have to work here if we do not like what has been proposed or what the judge does once we enter C11. That's not rocket science to figure out. One always has control over one's life. Having said that:

Lakefield stated he would change the corporate culture. He has not. PHL is still an abortion and Glass still works here. All labor groups continue to be harassed and contractual language is meaningless. Lakefield should have led but he did not. He does not want a partnership with this employee group or he would have had one already. A true leader (ala Neelman or Kelleher) would have us all on the same team by now. That is why they are leaders. The pilots are negotiating because they are the most afraid. Not because they believe in Lakefield. Same with the FA's. The mechanics understand the gravity of the situation but also understand piss poor management and leadership when they see it. Why give the cretinlike management more when they can't work with what they have?

The basic problem is that we are selling a product for less than it costs to produce. All the while crapping on the most valuable asset we have, the employees, with a management and a leader that is incompetent. Tell me what business in the universe will ever succeed with that formula.

We will likely stay in business in spite of all of it because of where we fly. That is the sad part. Our franchise could be so powerful with the right formula and the right management we would dominate the world airline business. But the formula they (mangagement) are using will result in pissed off customers and employees and an also ran airline who will go from crisis to crisis as the future unfolds. C11 is coming again. That happening is simply because Lakefield cannot lead or motivate. What comes out of C11 will be a company none of us want to be associated with.

mr

 

[WorldTraveler]

320Pilot,
The flaw with the logic that “if you just don’t like it at US, you should leaveâ€￾ is that US has given no reasonable incentive to leave. In fact, it really is cost prohibitive for airlines to give employees enough of an incentive to leave that they will. The primary incentive for airline employees to stay is their unique skill set (and for pilots this is reason 1-10 on a list of 10 reasons and why many pilots have obtained some other degree or skill as fallback), pension (very hard to walk away from for employees in the 20-30 years of seniority bracket), historical above average pay for skillset, and travel benefits. Although all of those four reasons are being diminished in importance at legacy airlines, those that successfully reorganize will allow employees who want to depart to keep at least a couple of items with one of them being one of the first three economic incentives. Having your pension eliminated and then having to leave the company provides absolutely no incentive for someone to leave; having a glut people on the street with your skill set (mechanics, pilots, flight attendant), severely reduces the incentive to leave. US is well on the way to eliminating all of the reasons to leave AND to stay so it should be no surprise that employees would rather burn the house down than get out and call the fire dept.

Eye,
As Michael points out Delta’s situation is different. When it comes to restructuring of the scale the airlines are having to do now, there is no first mover advantage. Delta is in a much better position by having learned from US, UA, and AA’s mistakes and will likely pull off a much more coherent, successful reorganization than what any of the other three have done so far (and AA has probably done the best job of the 3). Every stakeholder (pilots, debtholders, municipalities) all have seen the cost that US and UA’s bankruptcies have caused them and are much more likely to work with Delta to avoid chapter 11 since it will undoubtedly be far worse. Also as MW points out, Delta has traditionally been one of the best managed airlines and has had the lowest costs of the legacy airlines; it is far more likely than not that Delta knows what it needs to do to return to that position AND it knows the advantages that will enjoy when it gets back there. Finally, DL is clearly the biggest beneficiary if US fails; while I doubt if they are counting on a US failure, I’m expecting that they will take full advantage should it happen just as they did after Eastern failed about 10 years ago.

 

[PITbull]

mrweplanes,

AFA was able to convince managment to change the sick policy pay penalties and go back to the old system with some very little changes. This improvement will effect both line holders and reserves. Don't know what they will want in exchange, but it is fixed..

And guess what else, they will fix it for the pilots the same way.

SLAP ME FIVE, BROTHER!!!!!!

 

[ktflyhome]

Any news about the Reserve LTO???????

 

[wings396]

Nobody likes what is happening, but the reality is people will be hurt much worse in bankruptcy.

Even if a person gets laid off, it's better to go with severance pay, COBRA, passes, J4J, and recall rights, if desired than nothing.

It's a cold, tough world out there and anger does not help the situation.

As Masters said, "The airline holds all of the cards one way or another and they're going to do what they have to do to reduce employee costs."

Without new deals the majority of the employees will be much worse off, but it's each unions choice to vote no and have it worse or vote yes and either work at US Airways or move on.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

How may times can you post this line already. YOU may be better of without CH-11, but for the rest that is not true. For what we make and what they want to cut us down to, it doesn't matter at all. There are several jobs out there that START at what they want a top rate employee to earn per hour. You said this same crap the first time, and the second time...and again for round 3. IF the comapny is still around for round 4, I'm sure you will be beating the same drum again. YOUR JOB may be hard to replace at YOUR rate of pay, but that is not true for the majority of the workforce. Management hit an all time low when they threatened to Liquidate the company just in time for the Christmas Holiday. After that scheme, we could care less about their CH-11 threats. It would be a "Cold Tough World" out there for you, but not everyone else.

 

[ClueByFour]

Bob got it.

There is no reason, no reason at all that any sane CWA member (for instance) would vote yes on that contract. In fact, until they take the outsourcing language out, no sane CWA worker would vote "yes" on that contract.

The pilots are the only group that has enough left to lose to bend over. It's a lose-lose proposition for every other major union on the property.

 

[mwereplanes]

mrweplanes,

AFA was able to convince managment to change the sick policy pay penalties and go back to the old system with some very little changes. This improvement will effect both line holders and reserves. Don't know what they will want in exchange, but it is fixed..

And guess what else, they will fix it for the pilots the same way.

SLAP ME FIVE, BROTHER!!!!!!

You got your high five baby. And on the flip side too. Feels like an Arby's night.

Seriously, if Lakefield understood how to negotiate and lead we would have seen more by now. As an optimist I still hope they get it at some point but things don't look all that good to me based on what they keep replying with to our offers. It really doesn't take all that much to pull a team together. But it does take superb leadership. Such as you and our PIT ALPA reps provide.

We shall see. In the meantime order me some curly fries with that roast beef. And see if they need any part time slicers while you're there. Never hurts to have backup plans.

mr

 

[cavalier]

I was told by a professional person in human behavior not to respond to these posts because it only feeds the needs which are from some inner conflict or some such thing.

With that warning in mind I am going to respond to a few points anyway:

The Bronner boner was just that, a boner: "We will restructure the airline with or without the employees.â€
This statement shows arrogance and ignorance at the same time. Without employees there is nothing to control, and he sure doesn’t have the employees on his playing field.

“The challenge for labor is how can the employees obtain the best possible deal whether it’s to continue working at the airline or moving on?â€

From this observers perch most people are looking to moving on, including this writer, because there is no longer a horizon to look over and see a bright future, all that is visible is darkness mixed with doom and gloom where sane intelligent people dare no go, but instead change their course and move to brighter designations. With their heart and soul ripped out by the roots, what’s left to salvage?



“If US Airways files for bankruptcy, it is widely accepted that any union who enters the “judicial restructuring†without a S.1113/S.1114 letter will likely see the company seek to set aside the collective bargaining agreement and maybe reject key facility leases, such as the Winston-Salem reservation center and the Charlotte maintenance facility“

These letters mean nothing to people who have no honor and therefore honor nothing and why the BUS issue is a reality.

“Earlier this week chief executive officer and president Bruce Lakefield told employees in a recorded message, "Please stop dragging your feet of hoping that Chapter 11 will help you. It most certainly will not."

Given our preview of what this management want as per CWA postings makes this statement a joke.

“That’s true because once in bankruptcy everything can change. For example, the company could ask the court to eliminate severance pay, it remove pass privileges that maybe necessary to help obtain a new job, the airline would then be free to reject facility leases, and the opportunity for recall or J4J positions could be eliminated.â€

Oh Hummmm


“The company believes the new US Airways will offer significant rewards, which include: “

blah blah blah and some people still believe in the tooth fairy


“For those who are angry and would rather see the company “burn to the ground†instead of accepting an America West type of pilot contract, I believe Siegel made a valid point during his webcast. He went so far as to encourage employees to leave the company if new work contracts aren't agreeable, rather than to fight the change. "If it doesn't work, I'd encourage you to support the change, and then go on and find something else," he said. "It's better to have a job when you're trying to find another job."

Don’t have to beat me over the head…Done deal.


“From this observer’s perch, Siegel’s comments in the paragraph above are valid because after all the emotion and anger -- it’s better to have a job while you are seeking another job than to have just unemployment“

Guess you and Siegel are both wrong because recently talking the PA unemployment office about quitting versus staying until the door shuts: It seems the advice given was wait it out till the bitter end so you can get government training and unemployment where if you just quit and it doesn’t work out, you are on your own. Guess this writer is on his own, like I have always been.

 

[cavalier]

Remember you're the hiring manager and you're looking to exclude and narrow 4 to 1. Food for thought.

And remember Bob; read my last line, again.


Many people don't posses more than one trade and that's why I was told that. I may be an aircraft mechanic, but fortunate for me, that’s not all I have.

The ones not looking to leave have a lot of seniority and are afraid of losing it, are close to retirement and don’t care, or they really have NO choice except to wait and then get what benefits follows their job loss which is what tons are doing and why I was given this information. Personally I have never collected unemployment and I will continue that tradition.

 

[mweiss]

In fact, until they take the outsourcing language out, no sane CWA worker would vote "yes" on that contract.

And even then, the "rehire" clause is enough to say no.

There's no way they expect this proposal to pass. None. Jerry Glass has far too much experience in this field to not know that.