Why would the judge need to pick HP wages. In customer service, they are the lowest paid of all. And having voted in a union, I would expect their wages to see an increase. And speaking of marketplace reality, we all know SW pays much more than we do. So which reality will the judge be pondering?
When Will Reality Be Accepted?
- Thread starter cavalier
- Start date
You hit the nail on the head Cav and I agree with you for once.
Don't expect HP to receive a huge wage increase or any wage increase at all just because they have voted in a union. The fact they are represented changes nothing except the amount of money they're going to be bringing home after their union dues are deducted.
Don't expect HP to receive a huge wage increase or any wage increase at all just because they have voted in a union. The fact they are represented changes nothing except the amount of money they're going to be bringing home after their union dues are deducted.
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
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AC/CF said:
I think a judge is likely to consider as reasonable a comparison of U's competitors on a stage-length adjusted unit cost basis. In that comparison, U rates will benefit on a stage length basis against, say b6, and suffer according to seniority and topped out employees. But b6 is a logical comparison.
And I don't think the judge will pick. I think she'll just determine if managements proposal is reasonable or not. In the case of an emergency request, I think that the judge is likely to be even more defferential, since that would be temporary, right?
- Banned
- #19
How can any B6 or WN be compared they have no RJs, no widebodies and no international routes?
How can you compare HP when they have no widebodes?
And B6 is what five years old? So you are punish workers for being loyal to their employer and staying with them for 20 years?
How can you compare HP when they have no widebodes?
And B6 is what five years old? So you are punish workers for being loyal to their employer and staying with them for 20 years?
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
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700UW said:
There's this whold 'prescriptive' thing going on. I don't think the judge is going to care if you feel punished. You're company is bankrupt. That means bad things happen to stakeholders.
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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I find it interesting that everyone on here speculates what they THINK a judge may do or not do, or speculate the extremes as if its a "sure thing".
Most airlines who went this route just don't make it. It will be interesting, as well, to see how the ATSB reacts in this equation and what actions, if any, they may take.
Again, all speculation.
Most airlines who went this route just don't make it. It will be interesting, as well, to see how the ATSB reacts in this equation and what actions, if any, they may take.
Again, all speculation.
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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No Cav, I am not the camillion that you would like to cite. I have not changed my stance on the subject.
All I stated above is that everyone comes on here and speculates...what if, what maybe, what could etc....
I personally feel that U will survive and that managment will come to their senses with the help from the judge to work with Labor and resolve some conflict.
The reason I believe this is because the ATSB, RSA, nor GE, have asked for their money NOW. And we have the cash now to pay them all off including selling the shuttle to pay everyone.
So, I stick with what I think. I don't change my mind. Why? Because I think matters through carefully before I take a strong position and sound off.
And I don't say things I don't whole hardily mean. If I'm not sure how I feel about a subject, I don't say anything util I'm sure I even have an opinion on the subject.
All I stated above is that everyone comes on here and speculates...what if, what maybe, what could etc....
I personally feel that U will survive and that managment will come to their senses with the help from the judge to work with Labor and resolve some conflict.
The reason I believe this is because the ATSB, RSA, nor GE, have asked for their money NOW. And we have the cash now to pay them all off including selling the shuttle to pay everyone.
So, I stick with what I think. I don't change my mind. Why? Because I think matters through carefully before I take a strong position and sound off.
And I don't say things I don't whole hardily mean. If I'm not sure how I feel about a subject, I don't say anything util I'm sure I even have an opinion on the subject.
UseYourHead
Veteran
- Apr 1, 2003
- 720
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PitBull,
I listen to the lawyers and Economic & Financial Advisors...the ones ALPA pays for. They are professionals in this arena...you are clearly NOT, and further have an agenda to mislead and manipulate at times.
Good luck to us all...the judge will not be labors friend, that is not a BK judge's responsibility. He is for the company creditors, and with a Plan of Reorganization that is approved by him, he will be on the company's side 100% in lower labor cost...What planet are you from? Have you been listening too, or studing anything...can you remember how the process worked last time, or with any other airline who has entered court protection?
Are you doing what you should be doing in representing your members...wow!
I listen to the lawyers and Economic & Financial Advisors...the ones ALPA pays for. They are professionals in this arena...you are clearly NOT, and further have an agenda to mislead and manipulate at times.
Good luck to us all...the judge will not be labors friend, that is not a BK judge's responsibility. He is for the company creditors, and with a Plan of Reorganization that is approved by him, he will be on the company's side 100% in lower labor cost...What planet are you from? Have you been listening too, or studing anything...can you remember how the process worked last time, or with any other airline who has entered court protection?
Are you doing what you should be doing in representing your members...wow!
PITbull said:
PITbull
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- Dec 29, 2002
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UYH,
Again your desperation shows.
You don't know what I do, how I do it, what I study, who advises. Did you forget AFA has Advisors too...oh, I get it. Only ALPA are the professionals.
I am not YOU. The f/as are not pilots. Our stakes are different, and each member will choose what importance this job has to them in the new world. They have already lived these concessionary times, and they are not pleased on any level. You do remember PIT's vote during liquidation threat in 2002? The f/as will not vote to ENDORSE to ensure that you keep your seat in the a/c. If rthat was the case we would still be ALPA members.
Get it yet????
Agenda????? P-l-e-a-s-e.
Again your desperation shows.
You don't know what I do, how I do it, what I study, who advises. Did you forget AFA has Advisors too...oh, I get it. Only ALPA are the professionals.
I am not YOU. The f/as are not pilots. Our stakes are different, and each member will choose what importance this job has to them in the new world. They have already lived these concessionary times, and they are not pleased on any level. You do remember PIT's vote during liquidation threat in 2002? The f/as will not vote to ENDORSE to ensure that you keep your seat in the a/c. If rthat was the case we would still be ALPA members.
Get it yet????
Agenda????? P-l-e-a-s-e.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #28
PITbull said:
I won't get personal but I do have one hell of a memory.
I hope you are correct, really do because that would be great for the ones wanting to stay and retire minus all this needless stress it puts on employees and their families.
If U does somehow survives it will IMO be with a lot less employees, including many on here worrying about it.
I heard the Pit professor who is writing a paper about U’s labor woes on the radio this morning and he believes it’s shaky at best.
Luck To All...
PITbull
Veteran
- Dec 29, 2002
- 7,784
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cavalier said:
Memory???? I won't get personal either....
With regard to less employees...that is no epiphany, my friend. The plan at the onset of negotiations was to reduce the ranks in all groups substantially. Has nothing to do with BK.
I was with the good professor on Thursday most of the morning.
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
When the company seeks concession they always pay for ALPA's work and the work of the union's advisors. Why? The company is seeking the change and the union does not have the funds in the budget to pay for the additional expenses.
It's a good thing that the company pays for the advisors, otherwise members would be acessed for the fees.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
It's a good thing that the company pays for the advisors, otherwise members would be acessed for the fees.
Respectfully,
USA320Pilot
