What will the AA majority demand the US employees concede?

[signals]

It's a "signals is firedougparker" thing.

But thank you 🙂

 

[FWAAA]

How do you figure? PHL and JFK are next door neighbors in airline terms. AA will move all the transatlantic action to Kennedy and PHL will be a greatly reduced domestic only hub. At best.

I'm not real fired up about a merger between AA and US, but if (when) it happens, I sincerely doubt that all of PHL's international service moves to JFK. Couple of problems with that: JFK is slot controlled and unless AA buys jetBlue, it won't have enough slots. Another problem is that PHL does feature sufficient O&D to make some or most of its European flights viable. Proximity to JFK is irrelevant, IMO. As someone else recently posted, PHL may be the de facto third NYC-area international gateway (along with JFK and EWR),

I suspect that a merged entity might not feature quite as many small props and 50 seat RJs, but it will continue to see plenty of feeder flights to help fill its TATL flights.

 

[FWAAA]

How do you figure? PHL and JFK are next door neighbors in airline terms. AA will move all the transatlantic action to Kennedy and PHL will be a greatly reduced domestic only hub. At best.

Ted Reed, the great US cheerleader, disagrees with you:

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11784535/1/note-to-philly-airport-costs-not-us-airways-merger-threaten-hub.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

[ChockJockey]

Whatever people think, the gentlepig put me on ignore because I would give it a run for its money. This proves yet again that I am ME...

The One And Only!!!

Huh?

Oh Siggy sweetheart, if I knew putting you on ignore would have caused so much emotional distress I'd have done it a long time ago. For what it's worth, I don't think and have never implied that you and FDP are the same person. While you've been faithfully trolling here for years, FDP's account sprang up shortly after AA's unions agreed to term sheets with US at the end of April.

FDP's assaults on DP are hopelessly transparent, and as far a smear propaganda techniques go it's pretty boilerplate stuff, almost to the degree of being comical; even if you agree that DP sucks you'd have to be a fool to find what FDP says rational or convincing, even if it's based on kernels of truth. A sadly amateurish smear account that nonetheless has good spelling and punctuation; I wonder who put up the money to register the domain for his blog and paid extra to have its registry made private?

It strikes me as an impotent attempt to jumpstart a grassroots anti-merger campaign at US, and having failed that, misrepresenting that there is one, when there obviously is not (one need only browse these forums to find no evidence for the seething labor rebellion he keeps insisting exists). Of course, I know none of this for certain, but I'm just calling it like I see it...for what it's worth.

Bleating and babbling I fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.

 

[nycbusdriver]

As someone else recently posted, PHL may be the de facto third NYC-area international gateway (along with JFK and EWR),

Believe me, whoever posted that about PHL being the de facto third NYC-area airport has no clue as to what people living in metropolitan NYC think. People in Queens dread going "all the way to JFK" for a flight. And JFK is IN Queens. The people in northern NJ think Newark, or, Godforbid, LGA if they need to go somewhere. No one from metropolitan NYC goes to PHL for an originating flight to anywhere. New Yorkers are pretty well self-centered, and few would even acknowledge that Philadelphia is a significant city.

 

[jimntx]

New Yorkers are pretty well self-centered, and few would even acknowledge that Philadelphia is a significant city.

Uh, isn't that the little farming community with the cracked bell?

 

[FWAAA]

Believe me, whoever posted that about PHL being the de facto third NYC-area airport has no clue as to what people living in metropolitan NYC think. People in Queens dread going "all the way to JFK" for a flight. And JFK is IN Queens. The people in northern NJ think Newark, or, Godforbid, LGA if they need to go somewhere. No one from metropolitan NYC goes to PHL for an originating flight to anywhere. New Yorkers are pretty well self-centered, and few would even acknowledge that Philadelphia is a significant city.

I hear ya. Business people flying on OPM certainly won't fly down to PHL to cross the Atlantic. But cheapskates (budget vactioners spending their own money) will in a heartbeat. Last time I checked, US runs some LGA-PHL flights, probably as much to help fill those TATL flights as to satisfy the NYC-PHL O&D. IMO, PHL will keep much of its TATL schedule unless most of the passengers are connecting from elsewhere. Local demand will pay the highest (nonstop) fares and the rest of the plane can be filled with connecting passengers, even a few cheapskates from LGA if necessary.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I hear ya. Business people flying on OPM certainly won't fly down to PHL to cross the Atlantic. But cheapskates (budget vactioners spending their own money) will in a heartbeat. Last time I checked, US runs some LGA-PHL flights, probably as much to help fill those TATL flights as to satisfy the NYC-PHL O&D. IMO, PHL will keep much of its TATL schedule unless most of the passengers are connecting from elsewhere. Local demand will pay the highest (nonstop) fares and the rest of the plane can be filled with connecting passengers, even a few cheapskates from LGA if necessary.

You've missed the point. PHL is NOT a third international airport for NYC. When you fly out of LGA and connect through PHL, that doesn't count as using PHL as a third NYC option (because you've already started at LGA.)

With your logic, if Delta offered steep discounts transatlantic out of BOS and people took the Shuttle to catch those flights, then BOS would be the fourth NYC international airport.

 

[zethya]

I hear ya. Business people flying on OPM certainly won't fly down to PHL to cross the Atlantic. But cheapskates (budget vactioners spending their own money) will in a heartbeat. Last time I checked, US runs some LGA-PHL flights, probably as much to help fill those TATL flights as to satisfy the NYC-PHL O&D. IMO, PHL will keep much of its TATL schedule unless most of the passengers are connecting from elsewhere. Local demand will pay the highest (nonstop) fares and the rest of the plane can be filled with connecting passengers, even a few cheapskates from LGA if necessary.

It'll be just the opposite. JFK, which is slot exhausted during favorable TA departures/arrivals will likely be dedicated (primarily) to NYC O&D. PHL will support both local international O&D and sigificantly increase its connecting traffic ro relieve JFK of lower yielding passengers. The only way AA (the new) can increase it's current JFK international traffic is to borrow some of BA's slots (HIGHLY UNLIKELY), or to offload significant connecting traffic to PHL and use those slots on big ticket One World destinations. I thought you worked for AA ?

 

[FWAAA]

I thought you worked for AA ?

No, I do not. I'll defer to you and nycbusdriver, as your reasoning may be more sound, but it looks like we agree on one thing: in a merger, PHL is not likely to be "STL'd" the way STL was. Philly is a gigantic metro area that supports a lot of airline traffic, and US dominates that airport.

Proximity to NYC isn't going to mean that the world's largest airline (if US and AA combine) will choose one or the other. As I'm sure we all agree, the proposed merger isn't about slashing capacity like in the old days - it's about growth and becoming larger.

As Ted Reed wrote recently, if PHL is cutback, it won't be due to a merger - it will be due to overly ambitious and expensive building projects that threaten to bust the budget.

 

[signals]

Oh Siggy sweetheart, if I knew putting you on ignore would have caused so much emotional distress I'd have done it a long time ago. For what it's worth, I don't think and have never implied that you and FDP are the same person. While you've been faithfully trolling here for years, FDP's account sprang up shortly after AA's unions agreed to term sheets with US at the end of April.

FDP's assaults on DP are hopelessly transparent, and as far a smear propaganda techniques go it's pretty boilerplate stuff, almost to the degree of being comical; even if you agree that DP sucks you'd have to be a fool to find what FDP says rational or convincing, even if it's based on kernels of truth. A sadly amateurish smear account that nonetheless has good spelling and punctuation; I wonder who put up the money to register the domain for his blog and paid extra to have its registry made private?

It strikes me as an impotent attempt to jumpstart a grassroots anti-merger campaign at US, and having failed that, misrepresenting that there is one, when there obviously is not (one need only browse these forums to find no evidence for the seething labor rebellion he keeps insisting exists). Of course, I know none of this for certain, but I'm just calling it like I see it...for what it's worth.

Distressed? Surely you jest! I think you tipped your cards that I'm not on your ignore list...ha-ha 😉

I never said that you ever implied that I was FDP, but it did stem from a discussion when you accused FDP of having multiple accounts. Apparently johnny kat/signals wouldn't let it go!

 

[nic4us]

Your statement is misleading. While I am not particularly keeping count as you seem to be, most of those rulings you are citing have NOTHING to do with the seniority list. The east has lost ONE court ruling on seniority, after which they won on appeal in a higher court which nullified the loss. In the recent suit in Judge Silver's court, she dismissed both the company's and west west pilots' motions, and upheld USAPA's motion.

Please explain how this amounts to losing one court ruling after another on the seniority issue with which you opened your post?

Gotta call BS on this one.

Every single action taken by usapa has been to promote their agenda of reneging on the arbitrated seniority award, and jimntx is right they have all been failures. Further, your own post shows us why...you think you have won?

RICO lawsuit....intended to tie up AWAPPA and cost the West money...a pre-emotive strike that got thrown out with prejudice.

LOA93...a disingenuous grievance that had zero chance but was per sued to force the reneging agenda.

North Carolina case....the usapa was found guilty of an illegal job action...gee wonder why they were trying that avenue?

NYC case from Cleary...dismissed out right because the courts know exactly what usapa is trying to do...

Addington...took the jury 45 mins to find usapa guilty..and yes it was ordered dismissed by the 9th....but I would not call the warning of PAIN of an unquestionably ripe DFR..nullified.

Silver amended her ruling yesterday to clarify the West class. got a legitimate union purpose for reneging on a binding arbitration? The answer is no usapa does not, but again as jimntx said...usapa just does not care...the idiots think they won.

PS. Appeasing a majority in order to get a contract is not a LUP, and that was decided in the first DFR case ever. The other reasons usapa floats are even bigger turds that will be flushed by the company and the NMB.

 

[kamchaser]

Federal Law doesnt require employees to vote on which union they will join after a merger.

If a union is more than 35% of the total workforce they will get the certification unless the other union gets 35% of cards signed by the combined workforce to force an election.

There was no election at US for the IAM or TWU for fleet service nor was there one for Mechanic and Related between the IAM and the IBT.

There was no election for Fleet Service because the IAM bought off the TWU and that is public fact! I was there. I don't know about the M&R.

 

[john john]

There was no election for Fleet Service because the IAM bought off the TWU and that is public fact! I was there. I don't know about the M&R.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061212141629/http://www.iam141.org/PDF/US%20Airways/USA.02.13.06.pdf
Dear Sisters and Brothers:

The Transport Workers Union (TWU) today filed a request with the National Mediation
Board (NMB) seeking a representation election for the combined Fleet Service group at
US Airways.


http://web.archive.org/web/20070508114244/http://www.iam141.org/PDF/US%20Airways/IAMTWUAgreement.05.09.06.pdf

Washington, D.C. May 9, 2006 – The Transport Workers Union of America (TWU), AFL-CIO, and the International
Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) today reached an agreement over the future representation
rights for the close to 8,000 active and furloughed fleet service workers at the merged US Airways and America West
Airlines.
As part of the accord, the TWU today is withdrawing its application with the National Mediation Board (NMB) seeking
representation rights for the merged workforce, and has agreed to work with the IAM leadership on a seniority
integration process to ensure a smooth transition of representation services between the TWU and the IAM.

 

[Newman]

Taking into account AA's reaction to the CWA organizing drive reminds me of the late 90's when US went to court to have our CWA election thrown out, At that time many CSA's/RES employees realized that if management's intentions toward us were honorable, they should not worry about us having representation, If those intentions are not honorable, we're going to need representation.