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What Will Happen To Hubs? Clt - Phl - Pit
- Thread starter deltawatch
- Start date
The longest runways @ ISP (6/24) are 7002 feet.
LGA sees the B767 daily from DL, granted, they are not close to being at capacity with fuel and cargo. LGA's longest runway is 7000 feet.
However, when I crunch the numbers for transcons, ISP could easily handle fuel/cargo capacity on a 319/320 to the left coast without a problem at 7002 feet of runway space. Maybe I shouldn't say without a problem... it would be close. The 321/757 are another story. Not like it matters, US likes the 319/320 to the left coast anyway! UA flies LGA-DEN without a problem on the 757, don't they?
LGA sees the B767 daily from DL, granted, they are not close to being at capacity with fuel and cargo. LGA's longest runway is 7000 feet.
However, when I crunch the numbers for transcons, ISP could easily handle fuel/cargo capacity on a 319/320 to the left coast without a problem at 7002 feet of runway space. Maybe I shouldn't say without a problem... it would be close. The 321/757 are another story. Not like it matters, US likes the 319/320 to the left coast anyway! UA flies LGA-DEN without a problem on the 757, don't they?
and on a final note, since ISP is my hometown airport, I will say this...
While ISP may not draw as much O&D from NYC traffic as say, EWR (because of its distance from NYC) away from LGA/JFK, the Western Suffolk County industrial area has grown exponentially since WN began ISP service. Veterans Highway (NY Route 454) in Islip is almost a city within a county now-a-days. Major corportations have established HQ's there (Atkins nutritionals, for example) SOLELY DUE TO WN's SERVICE, and a new hotel literally goes up almost daily. The surrounding area has seen new Hampton Inn's, Radisson's, etc., that never would have been built prior to WN's entrance to the market, and pre-existing corporations based on the Island such as Sbarro, Computer Associates, and Arrow Technologies take advantage of ISP to the fullest. The corportate contracts that WN has at ISP today rival what US had at LGA several years ago. The aforementioned companies spend just as much at ISP with WN as, say, HSBC spent with US @ LGA to get to BUF before they dropped that contract (because US went all DASH-8! LGA-BUF!)
US Airways never should have taken for granted the LI O&D regardless of the fact that LGA is only 50 miles away. US was the major carrier at ISP for close to 30 years, and on a dark day in April of 97, they decided that ISP was going to be added to the list of the 9 cities that needed to have mainline eliminated. That was a terrible decision (as was the elimination of ABQ, SAT on the same day, if you remember what I am talking about).
It all goes back to what my friend Art @ ISP says... "It's about the fares, STUPID!" Maybe if US wasn't charging so much back in 97, ISP would have been profitable for them. In the past year, ISP has retained it's two daily ALB flights, but has seen it's PHL flights go from 6X to 5X and now to 4X on a DASH-8. In my eyes, totally unacceptable.
Regardless of who the US CEO is, if they really had a pair of balls (I hope that doesn't get deleted by moderator!), they would do something about it. I know for sure that although fares from ISP are low, ISP is one of WN's most profitable stations. Is it because it is it's only NY market, or because of the corporate contracts... who knows? But wouldn't it really send a message to WN if US restarted some mainline there? As an express station, can't ISP get 3 or 4 mainline flights per day? How about Sat. only MCO service? Or daily CLT serive? Or even 170 service to PIT?
Just a rambling thought!
While ISP may not draw as much O&D from NYC traffic as say, EWR (because of its distance from NYC) away from LGA/JFK, the Western Suffolk County industrial area has grown exponentially since WN began ISP service. Veterans Highway (NY Route 454) in Islip is almost a city within a county now-a-days. Major corportations have established HQ's there (Atkins nutritionals, for example) SOLELY DUE TO WN's SERVICE, and a new hotel literally goes up almost daily. The surrounding area has seen new Hampton Inn's, Radisson's, etc., that never would have been built prior to WN's entrance to the market, and pre-existing corporations based on the Island such as Sbarro, Computer Associates, and Arrow Technologies take advantage of ISP to the fullest. The corportate contracts that WN has at ISP today rival what US had at LGA several years ago. The aforementioned companies spend just as much at ISP with WN as, say, HSBC spent with US @ LGA to get to BUF before they dropped that contract (because US went all DASH-8! LGA-BUF!)
US Airways never should have taken for granted the LI O&D regardless of the fact that LGA is only 50 miles away. US was the major carrier at ISP for close to 30 years, and on a dark day in April of 97, they decided that ISP was going to be added to the list of the 9 cities that needed to have mainline eliminated. That was a terrible decision (as was the elimination of ABQ, SAT on the same day, if you remember what I am talking about).
It all goes back to what my friend Art @ ISP says... "It's about the fares, STUPID!" Maybe if US wasn't charging so much back in 97, ISP would have been profitable for them. In the past year, ISP has retained it's two daily ALB flights, but has seen it's PHL flights go from 6X to 5X and now to 4X on a DASH-8. In my eyes, totally unacceptable.
Regardless of who the US CEO is, if they really had a pair of balls (I hope that doesn't get deleted by moderator!), they would do something about it. I know for sure that although fares from ISP are low, ISP is one of WN's most profitable stations. Is it because it is it's only NY market, or because of the corporate contracts... who knows? But wouldn't it really send a message to WN if US restarted some mainline there? As an express station, can't ISP get 3 or 4 mainline flights per day? How about Sat. only MCO service? Or daily CLT serive? Or even 170 service to PIT?
Just a rambling thought!
USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
Art:
I would have to look at the runway length and performance characteristics, but off the top of my head the A319 would be the most likely product capable of flying from ISP to the West Coast.
I do know that the A321 cannot meet LaGuardia to Las Vegas requirements, which is probably valid for ISP. The A321 probably does not have the performance for this market.
Respectfully,
Chip
I would have to look at the runway length and performance characteristics, but off the top of my head the A319 would be the most likely product capable of flying from ISP to the West Coast.
I do know that the A321 cannot meet LaGuardia to Las Vegas requirements, which is probably valid for ISP. The A321 probably does not have the performance for this market.
Respectfully,
Chip
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
- 37
US can't do it anymore (having left SNA) but running ISP-SNA might be a hoot, and piss WN off to no end.
Of course, you would need a 757 to get out of SNA in the summer (or, I can't remember flying there on a 319 or 320--not to say that it never happened). And, you would have to fill the 757--might be tough to do ex-ISP.
LGA is great for US from a proximity standpoint (to Manhatten, anyway), but I'd rather see the current EWR ops run into JFK to pick up a few Star connections.
Of course, you would need a 757 to get out of SNA in the summer (or, I can't remember flying there on a 319 or 320--not to say that it never happened). And, you would have to fill the 757--might be tough to do ex-ISP.
LGA is great for US from a proximity standpoint (to Manhatten, anyway), but I'd rather see the current EWR ops run into JFK to pick up a few Star connections.
Art at ISP
Veteran
USA320Pilot,
My esteemed friend ISP and I are two different people.
ISP's runway 6-24 is equal in length to LGA's runways. With WN moving to a new terminal next month, there would be gate space available at ISP (US has 2 gates I believe, and I don't see why a jetway could not be placed at one of them).
While transcons would be nice, I doubt they will happen. Although I would love to see it I doubt we'll ever see main line at ISP again. That being said, I agree with ISP's points about the population and business growth in the area surrounding ISP. The airport is a sleeper, and has been growing rapidly over the past few years since the introduction of WN.
Instead of turning tail and running from competition, I believe ISP could be part of the new plan to fight WN--go against them in one of their markets-ISP-anywhere. PHL should definitely see an increase to 5 or 6 flights--and on RJ's at the very least. The 4 buzz buckets are ALWAYS oversold these days-I spoke with my friends at ISP and they are paying more in DBC than ever before. In addition, point to point service could be instituted to DCA, ROC, BUF, etc., as well as 170's to CLT and PIT if it stays any kind of hub.
The most important point is we need added capacity and we need an alternative to PHL if connections are necessary. With REASONABLE fares, I believe you will fill these flights and AVERAGE RASM will increase.
I wish you all the very best, and hope that ISP is part of the "plan".
My esteemed friend ISP and I are two different people.
ISP's runway 6-24 is equal in length to LGA's runways. With WN moving to a new terminal next month, there would be gate space available at ISP (US has 2 gates I believe, and I don't see why a jetway could not be placed at one of them).
While transcons would be nice, I doubt they will happen. Although I would love to see it I doubt we'll ever see main line at ISP again. That being said, I agree with ISP's points about the population and business growth in the area surrounding ISP. The airport is a sleeper, and has been growing rapidly over the past few years since the introduction of WN.
Instead of turning tail and running from competition, I believe ISP could be part of the new plan to fight WN--go against them in one of their markets-ISP-anywhere. PHL should definitely see an increase to 5 or 6 flights--and on RJ's at the very least. The 4 buzz buckets are ALWAYS oversold these days-I spoke with my friends at ISP and they are paying more in DBC than ever before. In addition, point to point service could be instituted to DCA, ROC, BUF, etc., as well as 170's to CLT and PIT if it stays any kind of hub.
The most important point is we need added capacity and we need an alternative to PHL if connections are necessary. With REASONABLE fares, I believe you will fill these flights and AVERAGE RASM will increase.
I wish you all the very best, and hope that ISP is part of the "plan".
LongIsland2004
Member
- Feb 11, 2004
- 74
- 0
I can tell US Airways has NO idea what to do at ISP. Back in August 1997, they pulled mainline flights out using the usual excuses, not enough passengers, not enough revenue Etc… Southwest starts flights in March 1999. Passenger numbers soar to record levels. Then, while other airports are spending there own tax money to build terminals that Southwest will use, Southwest decides to spend there own money, $ 60 MILLION DOLLARS, to build their own terminal at MacArthur Airport. But US Airways knows better. US Airways had a great following on Long Island. I, myself used them a few times when I was traveling to California and Florida in the 1990s. But that time is gone, Southwest is King at ISP now and US has just drifted off.
I can't tell you how many times over the years that I have spoken with agents at different stations who were shaking their heads over flights being totally pulled out all together and they were always full. Years ago, you couldn't get on a seat to San Antonio or Albequere. But we just cancelled service there all together. I believe IND is another fine example and also MSP. I am sure the list goes on and on.
