What If Ron Paul Wins Iowa? What Then?

[Ms Tree]

You know the Democrats do it too!

It was such a peaceful day of civilized debate until the slot machine reappeared with the name calling and insults. Thankfully it's on ignore and I only see that there was a post not the actual comment.

I'm not certain what if any validity the racist claim has, being that it's very old news against a back drop of Honor, Integrity and Principle that is Ron Paul, It's both sad and IMO desperate when all you can dredge up is a 20 year old allegation. Especially when your guy has more skeletons then Arlington National Cemetery .

Yes it is old but I think Jim has a point. The paper was Paul's. He is responsible for the content. For him to say that he did not know about it and is not responsible is pretty weak in my opinion. Had Paul said this was his belief at one point but he has change of heart and no longer holds these beliefs I think that would have been more plausible. I do not know how important this will be in the election cycle. I guess part of that will depend on how far he gets in the process. Regardless, I do not think he has address the issue adequately and the more he tries to push it away the more it will dog him.

 

[xUT]

Yes it is old but I think Jim has a point. The paper was Paul's. He is responsible for the content. For him to say that he did not know about it and is not responsible is pretty weak in my opinion. Had Paul said this was his belief at one point but he has change of heart and no longer holds these beliefs I think that would have been more plausible. I do not know how important this will be in the election cycle. I guess part of that will depend on how far he gets in the process. Regardless, I do not think he has address the issue adequately and the more he tries to push it away the more it will dog him.

who is 'Jim'?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Yes it is old but I think Jim has a point. The paper was Paul's. He is responsible for the content. For him to say that he did not know about it and is not responsible is pretty weak in my opinion. Had Paul said this was his belief at one point but he has change of heart and no longer holds these beliefs I think that would have been more plausible. I do not know how important this will be in the election cycle. I guess part of that will depend on how far he gets in the process. Regardless, I do not think he has address the issue adequately and the more he tries to push it away the more it will dog him.

Let's for the sake of discussion say that Ron Paul not only knew about the articles but wrote them himself. What then does that say?

George C. Wallace stood at the school house door over segregation and in his last run for Governor drew 85% of the Black Vote in Alabama.

Unlike Governor Wallace, Ron Paul has never admitted he was wrong and I have heard him admit he changed his mind regarding the Death Penalty. The reason he gave was it was applied disproportunately to the poor and minority members found guilty.

I think he's grown tired of the issue. Partly because he doesn't view himself as a racist and he's explained that many times. Libertarians don't think in terms of group rights, we think in terms of individual rights. The rights of Ms Tree, 7days, Southwind, jinintx, dapoes, tech2011, delldude and sparrowhawk are all that matters. If we were all black or all gay or black and gay it doesn't change the fact that we have no group rights, only the rights conferred upon us by our Creator.

Christians and Atheists don't have rights but sparrowhawk and Ms Tree do. This key piece of philosophy is why I don't think it possible that Ron Paul was involved in editorial approval of a newsletter he lent his name to. Libertarians are in general loathe to censor anyone so that likely played a part as well.

Like I mentioned in another post, Newt Gingrich's forays into the world of crony capitalism are far more important than his philandering. Where Mitt Romney draws his financial support from, Bachmann's ideology, Perry's apparent bigotry toward non Christians are far more important then a newsletter published 20 years ago by a then little known Congressman from Texas

 

[Ms Tree]

who is 'Jim'?

post #138

 

[Ms Tree]

I do not know what it would say. That would be up to the voters should he admit culpability. Whether he is tired of the issue or not is irrelevant. I do not think it will go away till he addresses the issue head on.

Paul may be for individual rights but apparently the individual rights end at the woman's uterus. Quite inconsistent. While I agree that Gingrich's infidelity is irrelevant but only because it has no affect on others. The question of Paul's view on race equality/relations and Perry's view on religious equality are relevant in my opinion since they have the potential to affect public policy.

I don't know where the censorship think comes from but that strikes me as quite foolish in this context. While I agree that no one should be censored from speaking their mind, I will certainly censor someone from writing something I disagree with in a forum that I sponsor. Assuming I would let this person publish something to inflammatory in my publication I would be putting disclaimers and I would also publish a counter point to the piece.

I still agree with Jim, for Paul to say he did not know and is not responsible is just very very weak. I think he needs to own up to the piece and deal with it. So far it seems like he has not done so.

 

[7days]

Say goodnight Paultards....

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7BM03320111223
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A direct-mail solicitation for Ron Paul’s political and investment newsletters two decades ago warned of a “coming race war in our big cities” and of a “federal-homosexual cover-up” to play down the impact of AIDS.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm kinda done with the race issue as it applies to Ron Paul.

If you want to skewer a racist why not start with Eric Holder, who stated the Fast and Furious investigation was racially motivated. As most here know I had the opportunity to meet Mr Holder on a flight. A very pleasant man who I am losing respect for by the minute. The accusations out of his mouth today are far more relevant and offensive then anything any candidate wrote 20 years ago.

 

[delldude]

I do not know what it would say. That would be up to the voters should he admit culpability. Whether he is tired of the issue or not is irrelevant. I do not think it will go away till he addresses the issue head on.

Paul may be for individual rights but apparently the individual rights end at the woman's uterus. Quite inconsistent. While I agree that Gingrich's infidelity is irrelevant but only because it has no affect on others. The question of Paul's view on race equality/relations and Perry's view on religious equality are relevant in my opinion since they have the potential to affect public policy.

I don't know where the censorship think comes from but that strikes me as quite foolish in this context. While I agree that no one should be censored from speaking their mind, I will certainly censor someone from writing something I disagree with in a forum that I sponsor. Assuming I would let this person publish something to inflammatory in my publication I would be putting disclaimers and I would also publish a counter point to the piece.

I still agree with Jim, for Paul to say he did not know and is not responsible is just very very weak. I think he needs to own up to the piece and deal with it. So far it seems like he has not done so.

Funny how you and others argue stupid issues relative to these candidates but were deaf when Obama's non background wasn't investigated.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Funny how you and others argue stupid issues relative to these candidates but were deaf when Obama's non background wasn't investigated.

For both parties to bring out the attack dogs this early after the same person only means one thing.

His campaign is gaining traction. He's on the brink of winning one or more of the three early primaries. He's built a base of fervent followers that deliver feet on the street and money in the bank. He is the only candidate to gain steadily in the polls. Every other Republican has surged and faltered and slipped back.

He has enough of a base right now to end up being the King Maker if there is no clear cut winner in the primaries. Because of this the Republicans are having a Crap Fest and the East Coast Elite will IMO stop at nothing to discredit Ron Paul. If he prevails in Iowa and by some miraculous twist of fate he rises above what will be one of the most virulent attacks in US political History to win the nomination he will have proven to the electorate that he has the right stuff to be POTUS and Obama will unleash an aattack that will make what he went through to get the nomination seems like 3rd grade recess.

Folks, Ron Paul is FEARED by both parties because he can't be bought and his base of support is deep and getting wider.

 

[Ms Tree]

I'm kinda done with the race issue as it applies to Ron Paul.

If you want to skewer a racist why not start with Eric Holder, who stated the Fast and Furious investigation was racially motivated. As most here know I had the opportunity to meet Mr Holder on a flight. A very pleasant man who I am losing respect for by the minute. The accusations out of his mouth today are far more relevant and offensive then anything any candidate wrote 20 years ago.

It's not your issue to be done with. Paul needs to deal with it. If he does not it will continue to haunt him. The fact that Holder is using race as an explanation for his problems has no bearings on Paul's issue. They are distinct and separate.

Now we have this that surfaced. No idea if it is real but they are issues that he will have to deal with. The fact that he did not deal with them when they originated only delayed the inevitable.

In ad for newsletter, Ron Paul forecast "race war"

A direct-mail solicitation for Ron Paul's political and investment newsletters two decades ago warned of a "coming race war in our big cities" and of a "federal-homosexual cover-up" to play down the impact of AIDS.

The eight-page letter, which appears to carry Paul's signature at the end, also warns that the U.S. government's redesign of currency to include different colors - a move aimed at thwarting counterfeiters - actually was part of a plot to allow the government to track Americans using the "new money."

The letter urges readers to subscribe to Paul's newsletters so that he could "tell you how you can save yourself and your family" from an overbearing government.

 

[Ms Tree]

Paul is feared no more than Perry, Gingrich, Bachmann or Romney were when they were the front runner. He is in the lead so he is the target. It is the same as the guy wearing the yellow vest in the Tour de France. He is not feared. He is the new target. This is a contest with huge financial stakes. No fear, just a desire to win at all costs.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Paul is feared no more than Perry, Gingrich, Bachmann or Romney were when they were the front runner. He is in the lead so he is the target. It is the same as the guy wearing the yellow vest in the Tour de France. He is not feared. He is the new target. This is a contest with huge financial stakes. No fear, just a desire to win at all costs.

Oh on this one I beg to differ, Ron Paul if elected will change the face of US politics. Remember if he wins he will have a mandate due to the policies he advocates whether he wins by one popular and one electoral vote or 50 Million votes. IMO he will use the bully pulpit of the Presidency as no other President has.

Face facts with the entrenched Political Parasite Class the only way to get them to move off the dime is to embarrass them in the media and there no more powerful podium then that of the POTUS. If he's elected he will badger the Crony Capitalists right out of Gucci Gulch. The bully pulpit used effectively can turn a flame thrower upon the asses of those who will seek to obstruct. He will make it quite clear early on IMO that it will be much easier to go along with than fight with.

Some would argue that a Ron Paul victory will be the end of one of the two parties. I'm not one who buys that. A Ron Paul victory is a sea change of epic proportion and the Republicrats just can't allow it to happen. If by some miracle he wins it will be because the Average Joe/Jane who draw a paycheck have said "Enough Already" to business as usual.

 

[jimntx]

Yeah, and so was Obama, and so was Reagan and so was Jimmy Carter and so was Eisenhower. There's always someone coming along who is going to change the world because he's not one of the crowd. I fail to see much difference between politics now and politics 50 years ago when I first started paying attention to it--with the exception of the almost total loss of civility in politics and political discussions. Because I won, I have a mandate. Then, of course, you find you also have Congress to deal with, and your mandate gets blocked at every turn. And, don't say the voters will turn them out if they don't fall into step with the mandate. The only time Congress has truly gotten turned out is when voters looked away from their tvs long enough to notice that their Social Security check was late (when the Repubs "shut down" the government during Clinton's administration) or their taxes went up to pay for the services they demand.

If you want to believe that the crackpot from the Houston suburbs is going to make a difference, have at it. I find that level of naivete refreshing in someone your age.

 

[7days]

I'm kinda done with the race issue as it applies to Ron Paul.

If you want to skewer a racist why not start with Eric Holder, who stated the Fast and Furious investigation was racially motivated. As most here know I had the opportunity to meet Mr Holder on a flight. A very pleasant man who I am losing respect for by the minute. The accusations out of his mouth today are far more relevant and offensive then anything any candidate wrote 20 years ago.

The fact that you have any respect for him is telling. Just because you two lovebirds crossed swords in an airplane lav, doesn't deem him any respect at what he is doing at the DOJ.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Yeah, and so was Obama, and so was Reagan and so was Jimmy Carter and so was Eisenhower. There's always someone coming along who is going to change the world because he's not one of the crowd. I fail to see much difference between politics now and politics 50 years ago when I first started paying attention to it--with the exception of the almost total loss of civility in politics and political discussions. Because I won, I have a mandate. Then, of course, you find you also have Congress to deal with, and your mandate gets blocked at every turn. And, don't say the voters will turn them out if they don't fall into step with the mandate. The only time Congress has truly gotten turned out is when voters looked away from their tvs long enough to notice that their Social Security check was late (when the Repubs "shut down" the government during Clinton's administration) or their taxes went up to pay for the services they demand.

If you want to believe that the crackpot from the Houston suburbs is going to make a difference, have at it. I find that level of naivete refreshing in someone your age.

Funny thing is I agree with almost all of your point. I've NEVER signed up to volunteer for a politician a day in my life until now. I was and am very jaded & cynical as opposed to naive regarding politics. I often talk politics privately and I predicted correctly that the current Empty Suit was nothing more than Bush in Black face. Ron Paul at worst is an interesting fellow who is in a way the anti-politician in that he has the courage of his convictions and a point of view he has seldom wavered from. At worst, he is a rigid ideologue who views threaten the security and safety of the US. As best he represents the last best hope for preserving our individual freedom and liberty from an ever more intrusive Federal Government.

This man represents a total change in the way the Parasite Political Class operates and those fellows in Gucci Gulch aren't going to go gently into that good night. Personally if by some wild twist of fate he gets himself elected POTUS I have serious concerns he will not survive his first term. I honestly think Ron Paul will fall victim to an assassination or at least an attempt on his life. He offers not Hope & Change as a mere slogan. He offers us a far greater opportunity and that is the restoration of the Individual Freedom & Liberty envisioned by the Founding Fathers.

I've thrown in with a diverse crowd to be sure. His poll numbers grow slowly and steadily. He has not surged only to fall back as all other Republicans have. His message is beginning to resonate with Mainstream America. Can he pull it off? I honestly don't know, but if not it won't be for lack of effort on my part.

Merry Christmas Jim! Here's hoping you don't end up as part of US Airways.