what has the association accomplished?

[WeAAsles]

It really is a shame about Kelly Moore. Wondering if he is leaving for a better offer or is being removed? He did good things for the operation here in DFW. We have some CSM's here that have you shaking your head. Add that to all the new hires and you see some shaky stuff.

Kelly has been making sure to let people know that he isn’t being forced out. He wrote this on his Facebook page.

“The word is out so I might as well post this. I have chosen to retire/leave American Airlines. It was a hard decision but the right one for my family. The opportunities and adventures that AA provided over the years has been incredible. All of that is small when compared with the friends I’ve made along the way. I appreciate all the guidance and support everyone has shown me over the years. It’s been an honor to work with you all. Thanks for everything. I’ll be around for a month or so, I hope to see everyone before I leave. I’m looking forward to sharing the next chapter with all of you.”

 

[CremaDiLimone]

When I worked for LAA in PHX many moons ago we had that problem but we were only a 3 gate operation. They started making the CC hours earlier so there wasn't too many people standing around. Our CC aren't a part of the crew/team. Our CC now only take care of ensuring the load plan is followed and input into the computer. Some CC would help but it wasn't required. When I went to DFW there are over 300 CC there, not many sit around doing nothing, they have the system figured out fairly well. Now in Atlanta, my current location, it's more like how it was in PHX. Ironically when I started with AA in JFK if a CC did anything besides taking care of the load plan he or she would get pulled aside and spoken to by either the crew or union. You do not do someone else's work and take jobs away. But that was even more many moons ago.
If you are still in PHX can I ask how the interaction with the law guys is with you? I know most of them, most are really good, a few slugs but all in all pretty good

I departed PHX not long after the AA became a separate entity working a couple of gates on their own. However, prior to the separation, I found most of them to be decent guys and helpful. I don't think they were comfortable in the way LUS PHX ran the operation with bat-crap crazy Managers ordering people around, as they were accustom to the CC's running the show. I did observe their operation on N3 (Terminal 3, North 3) as LUS shared gates nearby, and it was a surprise not to see CC's bothering to show-up on in-bound flights. I also ran some bags from their gates, as that was not assigned to LAA TWU, but only to LUS IAM, so I had a pretty good feel of the set-up.

The difference between the Leads vs. CC's on the line in PHX were a complete dichotomy. Typically, two-man crew plus the Lead on the in-bound vs. three-crew, no CC to assist. Lead sets-up gate equipment for in-bound vs. CC nowhere to be found. Lead responsible for supplying headsets, wands, and bypass pin vs. not the CC's problem. Lead returns gate valets to jet bridge vs. CC waits inside. Lead hook-up air, power, and water vs. CC pulls-up DRCP. Lead pushes-out plane vs. CC closes-out flight and goes inside.

I recall seeing more than a few LUS leads behaving like LAA CC's (before the merger), and being terminated too. There was one lead given repeated warnings and write-ups, and finally, terminated. He would call the local union weekly begging to get his job back, complaining the only job he could find was a telemarketing job paying $10/hour without benefits. That's how LUS Management rolled, but I will admit, as cltrat mentioned previously, there are differences between stations, and I think much has to do with the old US East operations vs. the old AW West operations.

i see the conversation here is about the responsibilities/work ethic (lack of) of the laa c/c. what steve said is what i have experienced and what jester says, i could imagine that is the immediate observation of the lus employee.

personally, i have no real issue with the responsibilities/work ethic of the laa c/c. many crew chiefs i have worked with, have pitched in with some work..helping the crew have a better day, each and every day.

what i talk about is something a bit different. a c/c assigns you and a c/c also assigns his 'friends'. this is where things start going off the rails. my example of going to HR, the c/c decided to fu9k with me...simple as that.

when i started, aa sent it's c/c to dfw for special workshops; on how to treat people/deal with your power over your crew. that stopped a long time ago..i see now they are having c/c workshops again, though i heard it's more rah-rah aa stuff than training c/c on how to deal with people.

the difference today is that in 1988, a new hire noticed the disparity in treatment/favoritism and said nothing. it was understood; one day, 'my time' will come.

in 2018, that fsc has 30 years and won't tolerate the same bull$hit that was tolerated 30 years ago. this is more of a problem in work areas with larger numbers of FSCs and only 1 or 2 c/c.

 

[Steve Walegir]

i see the conversation here is about the responsibilities/work ethic (lack of) of the laa c/c. what steve said is what i have experienced and what jester says, i could imagine that is the immediate observation of the lus employee.

personally, i have no real issue with the responsibilities/work ethic of the laa c/c. many crew chiefs i have worked with, have pitched in with some work..helping the crew have a better day, each and every day.

what i talk about is something a bit different. a c/c assigns you and a c/c also assigns his 'friends'. this is where things start going off the rails. my example of going to HR, the c/c decided to fu9k with me...simple as that.

when i started, aa sent it's c/c to dfw for special workshops; on how to treat people/deal with your power over your crew. that stopped a long time ago..i see now they are having c/c workshops again, though i heard it's more rah-rah aa stuff than training c/c on how to deal with people.

the difference today is that in 1988, a new hire noticed the disparity in treatment/favoritism and said nothing. it was understood; one day, 'my time' will come.

in 2018, that fsc has 30 years and won't tolerate the same bull$hit that was tolerated 30 years ago. this is more of a problem in work areas with larger numbers of FSCs and only 1 or 2 c/c.

Crema
I respect people's desire for anonymity here but was just curious if I could ask where you are based. Judging by your comment we probably have very similar time and experienced similar situations early on in our careers. I had mine in 1988 at JFK

 

[CremaDiLimone]

ord

 

[Steve Walegir]

ord

I've had both the pleasure and torture of working with former ORD employees. Some of the rather "special " ones went to Phoenix. I can see your concern about the CC assigning. It seems that is a bigger issue with dynamic manning as opposed to gate manning. Not sure how to fix it. People with no morals are hard to reason with

 

[swamt]

V
I wish your group the best of luck if this is what you decide as a group to do. I will hate to see you go but understand and support your reasons for going.

A very professional and intelligent response.
A big difference from past posters and I think you know who...

 

[Steve Walegir]

A very professional and intelligent response.
A big difference from past posters and I think you know who...

Thank you SWAMT,
No point in people being somewhere they don't want to be. It does them nor fleet any good. In the end I hope we all get something we can live with.

 

[Jester]

It seems that is a bigger issue with dynamic manning as opposed to gate manning.

Not sure what is "dynamic manning"? Where crews/teams are moved around instead of being assigned to a particular gate? I have heard, but I am not sure, Southwest hub operations have a "pool" approach where crews are assigned to a zone and dispatched on demand. Much like a hub connect driver would be assigned-- run the flight, return to base and wait for next assignment, which means flight assignments could change daily.

 

[Steve Walegir]

Not sure what is "dynamic manning"? Where crews/teams are moved around instead of being assigned to a particular gate? I have heard, but I am not sure, Southwest hub operations have a "pool" approach where crews are assigned to a zone and dispatched on demand. Much like a hub connect driver would be assigned-- run the flight, return to base and wait for next assignment, which means flight assignments could change daily.

Yes, exactly. AA calls it Dynamic Manning as opposed to gate manning where you stay on the same gate all day and work whichever flights come to that gate

 

[Jester]

Yes, exactly. AA calls it Dynamic Manning as opposed to gate manning where you stay on the same gate all day and work whichever flights come to that gate

But while similar, there is a difference between dynamic vs. a pool approach, as I understand it. Both will require crews moving between gates; however, a pool approach means that once done with a flight, return to base and wait for the next assignment. Maybe I am conflating the terms as "pool" vs. "dynamic", as simply moving between gates usually because the operations cannot support as crew assigned to just one gate in a "static" staffing.

I have worked in stations where we were assigned to just one gate, and then later during the day we were moved around (although I don't recall names or terms given to either in describing the allocation of staffing), but we knew our flight assignments a few hours in advance.

 

[Talos]

But while similar, there is a difference between dynamic vs. a pool approach, as I understand it. Both will require crews moving between gates; however, a pool approach means that once done with a flight, return to base and wait for the next assignment. Maybe I am conflating the terms as "pool" vs. "dynamic", as simply moving between gates usually because the operations cannot support as crew assigned to just one gate in a "static" staffing.

I have worked in stations where we were assigned to just one gate, and then later during the day we were moved around (although I don't recall names or terms given to either in describing the allocation of staffing), but we knew our flight assignments a few hours in advance.

As often as flights switch gates in DFW dynamic manning can turn into disastrous manning.

 

[ALUS78]

Weez Sing Association what it's good for absolutely ------------

 

[cltrat]

As often as flights switch gates in DFW dynamic manning can turn into disastrous manning.

They change here like they get a commission for each one, tower management in Clt is by far the most incompetent on the property

 

[Buck]

Thank you Buck I will look that up at the risk of sounding stupid what is that DWMS?
On a more important note as a person with some significant health challenges ahead I vet read your story with great interest.
It’s just awesome you’ve gone thru so much and have been able to return to work and have good health.
My best wishes for continued health for you and I hope you guys can get whatever is best for you going forward

DWMS is overhaul software. Your work cards and Non-routine work cards, the BOW is loaded by aircraft tail number. You work the items and sign them digitally. We still have paper but that will go also. Thanks for the boost, I have been quite lucky as everything falls into place. I hope your health is manageable. Listen real close, if you have loans purchase the insurance. that protect the loan.

 

[swamt]

Thank you SWAMT,
No point in people being somewhere they don't want to be. It does them nor fleet any good. In the end I hope we all get something we can live with.

I agree. And I also think the fleet guys will also be better off in their very own contract without the mechanics in it. This way, the fleet nego team can much more easily focus on fleet issues and no longer work with a budget that includes the mechanics it's just not fair to the rest of the groups wrapped up in the same contract. This is why we separated the cleaners from our contract. It got way better for both groups during nego's. Good luck to you all...