What concession would you like to see from AA management?

[eolesen]

Buck,
Sometimes when one becomes long-winded, they usually have nothing to say

Yup. Especially when they're no longer part of the industry or aren't traveling enough to have earn the right to complain as a frequent customer.

And when they're long winded about nothing to do with the original topic (or having to change/deflect the discussion onto something about another airline), they're usually going on and on out of fear of being forgotten or being seen as irrelevant/impotent.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Buck,
I appreciate you providing feedback and more important for taking the time to read, even if it does take more time than you might spend reading other posts.
A few comments about the length of my writing:
1. As an aviation professional – and you are joined by many others who share the same conviction – the measure of your work is not measured by how quickly you get it done but by how well you do the job. Ripping through a task rarely yields the best results.
2. My approach to posting on aviation forums has always been to provide data and insight that others don’t or won’t provide. Pushing preconceived notions aside by the use of data, history, and facts takes time. Even in the few posts above this one, one poster attempted to defy the exact wording of the article regarding why AA has fallen from favor w/ business clients to attempt to reposition AA as the victim in its attempt to restructure its distribution costs when the fact is that the article cited shows that there are clear reasons that have nothing to do with distribution which are part of the problem; but some people will never have the intellectual honesty to recognize that others do have insights into problems which neither AA or its mgmt supporters will admit.
3. I spend a lot of time writing and enjoy it…. Not unexpected when you have multiple research based graduate degrees.
4. I spend an enormous amount of time in my aviation forum posts countering inaccurate information or that which posters try to pretend doesn’t exist – you do realize there are people on these forums who prefer to IGNORE the truth than deal with the harsh realities those truths might reveal? For years, I listened to the AA mgmt fan club tell us how much higher AMR’s pension costs were than other airlines – until a person here (who I don’t always agree with but who is intellectually honest and intelligent) discovered for himself exactly what I have been saying for years – DL’s defined pension liabilities are larger than AA’s and DL gave up more than 25% of the equity in the reorganized company in order to terminate just the DL pilot plan which had an unsustainable lump sum distribution provision. Just think how much less I would have had to write if others had been as willing to admit what this person finally discovered – and which I have said all along.

I see my job here somewhat like a scrappy underpaid prosecutor out to defend the masses in the city – up against well paid defense attorneys who try to argue that their clients are innocent as they walk into court stuffing the blood-soaked handkerchief into their pockets.
My “clients” on aviation forums are those who are fed up with being fed a continuous line of denials and flat out lies; I know full well that there are people who would far rather silence me and attempt to deny my credibility than put up with the information that I continually find that can incriminate all parties.
Because I have no allegiance to anyone in the industry – labor or mgmt – I call the shots as I see them. And many times those shots are painful to those whose feet get stepped on.
.
AA mgmt and many of its aviation forum mgmt supporters have developed an incredible ability to deny reality and spin the facts – which they can’t even use appropriately – to present a story which everyone can see doesn’t add up.
The reason I post on the AA forum – with as much detail as I do – is because of people who value the insight I provide and who are tired of being told lies.
.
Within a short time of when you posted your comment followed by several others, I received yet another private message telling me that my posts are informative and valued, with the party encouraging me to continue doing what I do.
.
And I will. Those are the people I serve.

 

[Buck]

Buck,
I appreciate you providing feedback and more important for taking the time to read, even if it does take more time than you might spend reading other posts.
A few comments about the length of my writing:
1. As an aviation professional – and you are joined by many others who share the same conviction – the measure of your work is not measured by how quickly you get it done but by how well you do the job. Ripping through a task rarely yields the best results.
2. My approach to posting on aviation forums has always been to provide data and insight that others don’t or won’t provide. Pushing preconceived notions aside by the use of data, history, and facts takes time. Even in the few posts above this one, one poster attempted to defy the exact wording of the article regarding why AA has fallen from favor w/ business clients to attempt to reposition AA as the victim in its attempt to restructure its distribution costs when the fact is that the article cited shows that there are clear reasons that have nothing to do with distribution which are part of the problem; but some people will never have the intellectual honesty to recognize that others do have insights into problems which neither AA or its mgmt supporters will admit.
3. I spend a lot of time writing and enjoy it…. Not unexpected when you have multiple research based graduate degrees.
4. I spend an enormous amount of time in my aviation forum posts countering inaccurate information or that which posters try to pretend doesn’t exist – you do realize there are people on these forums who prefer to IGNORE the truth than deal with the harsh realities those truths might reveal? For years, I listened to the AA mgmt fan club tell us how much higher AMR’s pension costs were than other airlines – until a person here (who I don’t always agree with but who is intellectually honest and intelligent) discovered for himself exactly what I have been saying for years – DL’s defined pension liabilities are larger than AA’s and DL gave up more than 25% of the equity in the reorganized company in order to terminate just the DL pilot plan which had an unsustainable lump sum distribution provision. Just think how much less I would have had to write if others had been as willing to admit what this person finally discovered – and which I have said all along.

I see my job here somewhat like a scrappy underpaid prosecutor out to defend the masses in the city – up against well paid defense attorneys who try to argue that their clients are innocent as they walk into court stuffing the blood-soaked handkerchief into their pockets.
My “clients” on aviation forums are those who are fed up with being fed a continuous line of denials and flat out lies; I know full well that there are people who would far rather silence me and attempt to deny my credibility than put up with the information that I continually find that can incriminate all parties.
Because I have no allegiance to anyone in the industry – labor or mgmt – I call the shots as I see them. And many times those shots are painful to those whose feet get stepped on.
.
AA mgmt and many of its aviation forum mgmt supporters have developed an incredible ability to deny reality and spin the facts – which they can’t even use appropriately – to present a story which everyone can see doesn’t add up.
The reason I post on the AA forum – with as much detail as I do – is because of people who value the insight I provide and who are tired of being told lies.
.
Within a short time of when you posted your comment followed by several others, I received yet another private message telling me that my posts are informative and valued, with the party encouraging me to continue doing what I do.
.
And I will. Those are the people I serve.

1. As an aviation professional – and you are joined by many others who share the same conviction – the measure of your work is not measured by how quickly you get it done but by how well you do the job. Ripping through a task rarely yields the best results.

I took the time to read through your post, although losing interest pretty quickly. While your #1. has some truth, in today's maintenance world, management does not agree with you. It is all about turn time. As for the quality of work, I have yet to meet or witness maintenance at AA that has been intentionally been poor in nature. While there are good and not so good mechanics, there are some artists.

As for the rest of this posting and many others you have blessed this forum with, they are dissertations about you and your ego. No one here has said that you are not knowlegeable, however could you write briefs instead of essays?

Another way to look at this is to review your score here.

Reputation: -458
Bad

 

[FWAAA]

Buck: Unfortunately, nuggets of useful info are hidden among thousands of words (some of them factually incorrect and others internally inconsistent or inconsistent with other recent posts by the same poster), much like precious metals are dispersed throughout millions of tons of ore, most of it useless. And the useful info isn't as valuable as gold or platinum, reducing the incentive to wade through the ore in search of those elusive nuggets.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I do not and will not measure the value of my contribution by the responses of others.
.
Many of the world's greatest leaders and thinkers were not recognized as such during their lifetimes.
.
Pandering to the appeal of crowds is precisely why there is no leadership in the world today.
.
We need people who will speak the truth no matter how hard hitting it may be.
.
If someone doesn't have the intellectual bandwidth to process what is written, they can simply move on... AKA ignore - although some only do it selectively until they want to pop up with their own self-perceived flashes of brilliance - which later prove to be nothing more than sparks from the chains they drag behind them.

----
And once again in the absence of being able to contribute anything significant on the subject or because we disagree with them, we turn to character assassination. How Washington of you.
.....

FWAAA,
I believe you were the one who after years of telling us how much greater AA's financial burden was for pensions somehow managed to discover that DL indeed has larger pension obligations on its balance sheet AND on an annual basis.

I supposed this would be an example of your final discovery of a speck of gold after years of sloshing through waste, not ore?

 

[Buck]

I do not and will not measure the value of my contribution by the responses of others.
.
Many of the world's greatest leaders and thinkers were not recognized as such during their lifetimes.
.
Pandering to the appeal of crowds is precisely why there is no leadership in the world today.
.
We need people who will speak the truth no matter how hard hitting it may be.
.
If someone doesn't have the intellectual bandwidth to process what is written, they can simply move on... AKA ignore - although some only do it selectively until they want to pop up with their own self-perceived flashes of brilliance - which later prove to be nothing more than sparks from the chains they drag behind them.

I hope that you are not plagiarizing, because I might have read something like that when studying the quotes of Franklin and Jefferson...... or was it Churchill?


As for having the intellectual bandwidth and moving on, I am not indicating or suggesting that you are not allowed your free speech, however turn off the brain power a little, could you?

You even have SPOCK scratching his points......

 

[FWAAA]

FWAAA,
I believe you were the one who after years of telling us how much greater AA's financial burden was for pensions somehow managed to discover that DL indeed has larger pension obligations on its balance sheet AND on an annual basis.

I supposed this would be an example of your final discovery of a speck of gold after years of sloshing through waste, not ore?

That's incorrect. For years and years, I have consistently posted my view (backed up by the cash flow numbers from AMR) that AA's pension obligations have not been its primary problem. I pointed it out in late 2002 when UA was forced to file Ch 11 in part because its pension obligations were too large to manage, unlike AA. AA was able to manage its 2002 and 2003 minimum contributions until the Congress passed the legislation permitting AA and others more time to make up the underfunding. For most of the last decade, AMR has spent a much smaller percentage of its employee labor expense on its cash pension contributions than WN has spent on its DC plans. And I've pointed that fact out again and again whenever someone ignorantly posts that AA would have to freeze and/or terminate its DB plans.

Yes, I realize that over the long term, DB plans are probably more expensive and are an endangered species. But there's no esacaping the fact that AMR has benefitted from the equity gains in its plans, helping to reduce its current cash outflow to fund its pensions. James Beer and other AMR execs have said the same thing in their quarterly conference calls over the past decade. When you have several billion dollars invested, and the market does well, that certainly helps reduce the drain on cash. Unfortunately, the equity markets' long-term gains have stagnated and in some cases evaporated since 2008, causing AA's funded percentage to fall.

I recently pointed out DL's massive pension underfunding not because I had just discovered it - but in response to someone's (I honestly don't remember who) incorrect posting that DL, because of its bankruptcy and frozen pensions, did not face the same headwind as AA on the pension issue. As we both know, DL's pensions are underfunded by a larger percentage than AA's pensions. Kudos to DL for managing to continue to fund its DB Plans plus fund its Defined Contribution replacements.

 

[WorldTraveler]

That's incorrect. For years and years, I have consistently posted my view (backed up by the cash flow numbers from AMR) that AA's pension obligations have not been its primary problem. I pointed it out in late 2002 when UA was forced to file Ch 11 in part because its pension obligations were too large to manage, unlike AA. AA was able to manage its 2002 and 2003 minimum contributions until the Congress passed the legislation permitting AA and others more time to make up the underfunding. For most of the last decade, AMR has spent a much smaller percentage of its employee labor expense on its cash pension contributions than WN has spent on its DC plans. And I've pointed that fact out again and again whenever someone ignorantly posts that AA would have to freeze and/or terminate its DB plans.

Yes, I realize that over the long term, DB plans are probably more expensive and are an endangered species. But there's no esacaping the fact that AMR has benefitted from the equity gains in its plans, helping to reduce its current cash outflow to fund its pensions. James Beer and other AMR execs have said the same thing in their quarterly conference calls over the past decade. When you have several billion dollars invested, and the market does well, that certainly helps reduce the drain on cash. Unfortunately, the equity markets' long-term gains have stagnated and in some cases evaporated since 2008, causing AA's funded percentage to fall.

I recently pointed out DL's massive pension underfunding not because I had just discovered it - but in response to someone's (I honestly don't remember who) incorrect posting that DL, because of its bankruptcy and frozen pensions, did not face the same headwind as AA on the pension issue. As we both know, DL's pensions are underfunded by a larger percentage than AA's pensions. Kudos to DL for managing to continue to fund its DB Plans plus fund its Defined Contribution replacements.

The reason why I have far more respect for you than other AA mgmt followers is precisely because you are consistent in what you have said...
but you have also consistently said along with many others that AA's employee expense burden is larger than other airlines because they had the opportunity to terminate their pensions in BK while AA has not.
The simple fact is that "other airlines" is not a definite enough statement to be accurate... which is why I have consistently argued that DL indeed still has responsibility for the frozen pensions of all non pilot PMDL employees as well as nearly all PMNW employees.
.
It is accurate to argue that AA's pension underfunding was less than DL's but it does not change the fact that AA is NOT the only US network airline that has defined pension benefit obligations on its books and continues to pay them... in the current year, it is estimated that DL will pay $100M more to fund its FROZEN pensions than AA will pay for its active pensions.
And as we agree, DL does in fact continue to provide pension benefits via defined contribution plans for its current employees.
.
Further, even though UA and US terminated their DB plans in BK, they paid plenty for the privilege in the form of bankruptcy claims from their labor groups and from the PBGC who wanted and got a piece of the reorganized companies in BK.
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Terminating pension plans is far from a get out of jail card and freezing a plan only means you no longer continue to accrue benefits.
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The simple fact is that when you consider that AA and DL still maintain DB plans, DL spends money on DC plans, and DL employees on average draw wages on average or higher than AA employees at the same seniority, then AA's cost disadvantage comes because it is in a no growth environment with a senior workforce which is too large for the size of the airline.
The notion that AA is at a competitive disadvantage because it spends more PER EMPLOYEE is simply not accurate.