We're Not Alone...

[Radman]

but was that not the same comparisions that were sold to the 47.1% of the decimated members that amfa was expected to represent...? How do you believe those members feel about the amfa dream now...? Educate me,

HSS, I have talked to people ( 6-12) at NW who are employed and to people (4) who were on layoff at NW and they all said the same thing about AMFA. They are 100% satisfied with AMFA. The difference is that AMFA fights for the mechanic on all issues, while other unions would capitulate. Two of the people who were on layoff are now recalled as of OCT 2003. They also said that if the old union was in place that it would have been worse. A handful of them believe they would have lost pay and then the company would have laid off anyhow. Don't forget the people who are at NW (technicians) just received a raise this year (and it wasn't 1.5% of what they had given up for them).

 

[Hackman]

The IAM and the AFL-CIO were the ones who made the mistakes at NWA, mistakes we're still paying for after they've taken their money and ran. Our only mistake was waiting to throw them out and AMFA's only mistake was not trying harder to convince us we needed to. We'll never go back.

[post="166569"][/post]​

Radman.

I have several friends at NWA and they say the same thing. No iam now or ever again.
Here is a direct quote from a NWA AMFA mechanic. Sounds like he wants the iam back real bad.........NOT!!!!

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Bill]

Kind of like what I say about AMFA wanting in at AA............NO AMFA NOW, OR EVER!!!!!!

I guess we don't share the same friends over at NWA Hackman. My friends are singing a whole different story.....highly disgruntled with AMFA. HMMMMMMM, now who do you suppose is right???????

 

[Hackman]

Kind of like what I say about AMFA wanting in at AA............NO AMFA NOW, OR EVER!!!!!!

I guess we don't share the same friends over at NWA Hackman. My friends are singing a whole different story.....highly disgruntled with AMFA. HMMMMMMM, now who do you suppose is right???????

[post="167950"][/post]​

Well Bill, the proof to me is in the iam card drive. There isn't one that's gone over 500....and they've had several attempts.

You haven't been at AA long enough to know what you want.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Bill]

So you think you know how long I have been at AA?????????? Longer than you Hack!!!! I guarantee you that!!!

I have to say I'm not real hip on the IAM either!! And if I had a choice between amfa and no union at all.......guess which I would choose??????

 

[Vortilon]

Hey Bill,

I interact with NWA AMTs at least once a week, and I have only encountered one wack job IAM supporter - that asked me about my AMFA patch. The rest of them are all very supportive of the AMFAs efforts. In fact, I once brought a fresh Tulsa transferee; that was a staunch TWU supporter, down to a NWA AMT break-room. He found out first hand; from no less than 10 NWA AMTs, that they were happy with the AMFA, and would never go back to the IAM! It wasn't much longer after that, this once proud TWU supporter just out of the blue said "gimme a card now". We never intimidated him or put him down, simply presented him with the facts until he had educated himself; and low and behold, he crossed over. He remains skeptical, yet happy with his decision.

Bill, Gary is right you know.

 

[Hackman]

So you think you know how long I have been at AA?????????? Longer than you Hack!!!! I guarantee you that!!!

I have to say I'm not real hip on the IAM either!! And if I had a choice between amfa and no union at all.......guess which I would choose??????

[post="167959"][/post]​

My bad, I should have known you were an Tulsa A-scale sellout that's most likely voted yes on every POS twu contract thats been dumped on his thick mellon.

I have to say I would rather have the iam than the most docile union in existance., its got three letters, and they stand for "will sellout if provoked".

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Here's the problem hss,

I could talk to you until I'm blue about the merits of AMFA........and it would very likely accomplish nothing except waste my time. You are stuck in your Tulsa twu machine shop ways. Until you decide to open your eyes and stop blindly swallowing all the twu lies your told, there is nothing I can say or do for you. I worked in Tulsa for a number of years long ago, and when I say "twu blind", I speak from the experience of seeing it first hand.

Like I've said before, there are some people you just can't reach. You, in my humble opinion, do not want to seek the truth, or you would not be regurgitating the same twu lies over and over about AMFA.

Here is something for you to ponder hss: If AMFA is so detrimental to our careers, then WHY in the hell the did the AMT's at an airline like Southwest, who has led the industry for years in profitability, remove the ibt from power for AMFA??? Why did they not go with your beloved twu??? Why hasn't the twu started a card drive somewhere??? ANYWHERE???

You answer my questions with a legitimate reply, I will consider wasting an hour on you listing all the numerous advantages of AMFA as I see them.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

[post="167935"][/post]​

I answer your questions..? Aren't you the one who want's to make the change...? And don't you need the membership of the TWU to make it happen...?

No Hackman, you don't seem to understand that I am "UN-Convinced", in the amfa dream...! It is apparrent that if I am to seek the positives to the amfa that I should look to someone else for the answer's. You seem to refrain from the topic, or are just a follower like many I have encountered.

You also seem to degrade those who don't serve in the same capacity as yourself, and offer little respect to skilled trades. The last time I Checked a Machinist was a critical element to the manufacture of that "Big Puzzle", you call a Commercial Aircraft...!

Now you suspect that all I do is listen to what the TWU has told me. Wrong again, Hackman...! I have done enough research myself to determine that amfa is inferior to the TWU as to protecting the Proffession....!

I have a challenge for you Hackman...! You get yourself a copy of the NWA agreement, read through from the beginning to article #11, With articles #2, #11, and #9 being the most interesting to me, because what I see is considerably weakend language...! I am referring to language that was once present to support the security of the "ex-IAM" represented employee's of NWA....! You tell me where I should have no worries with amfa..!!! :blink:

Oh, and Hackman. Before you start spewing your nasty remarks, keep this phrase in mind....See Below...



With no Blue Print, there is no me. With no me, there is no Airplane. With no Airplane, there is no "HACKMAN"......

------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Bob Owens]

No Hackman, you don't seem to understand that I am "UN-Convinced", in the amfa dream...! It is apparrent that if I am to seek the positives to the amfa that I should look to someone else for the answer's. You seem to refrain from the topic, or are just a follower like many I have encountered.

Perhaps in the microcosm of Tulsa you fail to see things as we do. The fact is that in our industry effects are not isolated. What happens at one airline affects and causes a response at others. With this in mind it becomes clear that in order for workers, or even any class of workers to protect their interests they must be in a common organization. An organization that will put the interests of the whole class of workers first. In other words we need to be in one union across the industry. As mechanics we need to be in a union that will put our interests first. The only option for mechanics is AMFA.

You also seem to degrade those who don't serve in the same capacity as yourself, and offer little respect to skilled trades. The last time I Checked a Machinist was a critical element to the manufacture of that "Big Puzzle", you call a Commercial Aircraft...!

Now you suspect that all I do is listen to what the TWU has told me. Wrong again, Hackman...! I have done enough research myself to determine that amfa is inferior to the TWU as to protecting the Proffession....!

And tell me what actions that the TWU has committed have protected the profession? The creation of OSMs? Giving away R&D, deicing and cabin inspections? My research has proven that the TWU is hostile to the interests of the profession of the A&P mechanic through its deliberate acts that reduce the need and the scope of our jobs. You seem to be confusing the interests of the TWU at keeping TWU members and willing to sacrifice A&Ps to achieve their objective.

I have a challenge for you Hackman...! You get yourself a copy of the NWA agreement, read through from the beginning to article #11, With articles #2, #11, and #9 being the most interesting to me, because what I see is considerably weakend language...! I am referring to language that was once present to support the security of the "ex-IAM" represented employee's of NWA....! You tell me where I should have no worries with amfa..!!! :blink:

The key word is "IAM represented". Is this language directed to protect the profession or the union? Doesnt the company fulfill its obligations to the contract even if it eliminates mechanics but retains TWU represented fleet service clerks? Thats what they did in Buffalo years ago. They did it in BWI too. Both stations had mechanics but as long as the company kept TWU represented employees there they were in compliance wioth the contract. Its easy to see that the language that the TWU has does nothing to protect the profession.

While ideally all workers have the same interests there are times when their interests are competitive. With the TWU the biggest competitor for A&P jobs is other TWU members who work for lower pay. This is exactly what unions are supposed to fight, not promote. Clearly the interests of A&P mechanics has not been served by the TWU.

The pilots formed their own-profession based union years ago. Do you think that if the Pilots were lumped together with the rest of the TWU that pilots would be making what they are? Do you think that Sonny Hall would fight to get the Pilots paid as much as he gets? Do you think Jim Little would get the pilots more than he gets(on top, not under the table that is).

 

[Hackman]

I answer your questions..? Aren't you the one who want's to make the change...? And don't you need the membership of the TWU to make it happen...?

No Hackman, you don't seem to understand that I am "UN-Convinced", in the amfa dream...! It is apparrent that if I am to seek the positives to the amfa that I should look to someone else for the answer's. You seem to refrain from the topic, or are just a follower like many I have encountered.

You also seem to degrade those who don't serve in the same capacity as yourself, and offer little respect to skilled trades. The last time I Checked a Machinist was a critical element to the manufacture of that "Big Puzzle", you call a Commercial Aircraft...!

Now you suspect that all I do is listen to what the TWU has told me. Wrong again, Hackman...! I have done enough research myself to determine that amfa is inferior to the TWU as to protecting the Proffession....!

I have a challenge for you Hackman...! You get yourself a copy of the NWA agreement, read through from the beginning to article #11, With articles #2, #11, and #9 being the most interesting to me, because what I see is considerably weakend language...! I am referring to language that was once present to support the security of the "ex-IAM" represented employee's of NWA....! You tell me where I should have no worries with amfa..!!! :blink:

Oh, and Hackman. Before you start spewing your nasty remarks, keep this phrase in mind....See Below...
With no Blue Print, there is no me. With no me, there is no Airplane. With no Airplane, there is no "HACKMAN"......

------------------------------------
amfa: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

[post="168251"][/post]​

Your pretty full of yourself there hss, I respect all skilled trades, but just don't ever think your irreplacable in the machine shop with all the automation hss. As long as airplanes fly, there will always be line maintenance. However, I'm not here to argue with you who's job is more important.

I will read the NWA contract again and try to see what your ranting about. I know for a fact that no where in the NWA agreement does it state: "Nothing in this agreement guarantees the present volume of work" If you want to talk weak contracts.... I have not seen anything worse then this clause in the twu agreement. (Quoting from memory, I don't have the AA/twu agreement here).

Yes, you will answer my questions, if you want me to answer yours, I really don't care either way. Your beloved union is under serious duress and division, its your "Supreme Invincable twu- We Answer to No One Attitude" why your losing strength daily. You seem to forget we have the cards for a vote (over 9000) if the AA/twu/NMB fraud hadn't taken place. Even with the fraud... AMFA is very, very close. We shall soon see how close. AA and the twu had to inflate the list by thousands to apparently stop (no decision from the NMB yet) a democratic vote. We in the AMFA drive have seen it before at NWA and UAL, so its nothing new to us. No matter if that happens here at AA, we AMFA drivers are very patient, we know we will win when a vote comes. We will AMFA drive again harder and faster than you've ever seen it before.

How I personally see your type hss is this; There are several twu miscreants I know I would never accept a AMFA card from, even if they ran after me begging me to take it with tears in they're eyes. They are too vile of character, have done too much damage to good people and their careers, they are never to be trusted. As far as I am concerned, they can stay in the 49.9%.... we only need 50% +1 for a vote and a win. Now, I don't know you because you hide behind an alias like a twu coward does, but I am sure I wouldn't like you if I did. Are you one of the machine shop twu cultists that call AMFA people "scabs" from afar when they pass through your area? This shows the idiocy of the twu cultist, when twu International reps and some of your own "team twu brothers" have committed this act at Eastern and even here at AA. Seems that my assessment of some of the team twu hypocrites is right on the money. Its people like you that have created this 3 headed monster of hate and loathing against the twu. Its taken many, many years to get to this boiling point. Is this point of view extreme? Radical? Maybe so. I am sorry if I hate the twu that much. I don't feel I am at fault for the way I feel..... I know there are may more like me. The twu created this.

Having a representational vote and major twu changes would maybe start the reconcile process if the twu should win this conflict. However, the twu is scared of a vote because they might lose. The twu iron fist rule is over.

Enjoy your overconfidence while it lasts hss.



Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

So you think you know how long I have been at AA?????????? Longer than you Hack!!!! I guarantee you that!!!

I have to say I'm not real hip on the IAM either!! And if I had a choice between amfa and no union at all.......guess which I would choose??????

[post="167959"][/post]​

Let me guess, Amfa or no union at all,,,,,, That means you choose the TWU!!!

That also explains why you are not too hip on the IAM either. Everyone in the industry knows that as bad as the IAM is they are more militant than the TWU. It took twenty years and bankruptcy for the IAM to take R&D away from mechanics. Despite bankruptcy IAM workers still get holidays, vacation, doubletime, OT for training off shift, company paid medical , Dental etc. Despite bankruptcy the IAM did not give nearly as many concessions as the TWU did with "the threat" of bankruptcy.

The fact is that the IAM had a long history of fighting for their members. The TWU has not called for a strike at AA, despite the huge concessions we have given over the last twenty years, since 1969! So the only employees who have seen the TWU strike at AA have at least 35 years with the company and be at least 55 years old!

 

[Bob Owens]

Abandoning your own threads NW? You started the topic now you abandoned it. Why? Nothing left to say?

 

[Nightwatch]

Actually Owens, not everyone posts just to see their name in blue ink. I made my point and see no reason to respond to your rhetoric, as feeble as it is.

 

[Hackman]

Actually Owens, not everyone posts just to see their name in blue ink. I made my point and see no reason to respond to your rhetoric, as feeble as it is.

[post="169563"][/post]​

It wouldn't matter if your posts were Blue, Pink, or chrome, you still can't derail Bob or anyone else here Nightbitch!!! Your repartee is sorely lacking.

Punks, Drunks, Cowards, Functional Illiterates, Felons, and Scabs. The twu's finest.

NO VOTE? NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually Owens, not everyone posts just to see their name in blue ink. I made my point and see no reason to respond to your rhetoric, as feeble as it is.

[post="169563"][/post]​

Did you?

By the way, my name is in black.