We are SCREWED

[bagsmasher]

Some of the AAer's at work have bought tickets on WN when the go on vacation. One recently bought tickets to MCO and said that since it was a non-stop both ways, they could spend what equaled to an extra day at Disneyland, instead of spending a lot of time traveling, and another night in a hotel. The only thing he didn't like on WN was the boarding process.
Anyway, my intent in satrting this thread was not to run down TWA, or blame it for our problems right now. I simply wanted to state that our management is saying we have to get our costs in line with WN, and I don't think it is possible. We need a culture like Southwest's in order to get the cooperation and work rule changes needed. Currently at AA, we have many who think they have been screwed, on both sides. I know I have. I wish I felt better about AA, but I don't. And I don't see a reason to give up anything, since we are headed down the same path as UAL. Carty will not be able to rally the forces to change.

 

[will fix for food]

Bagsmasher, It is pretty obvious that you have a problem with the seniority integration of the TWA people. With the APA advocating a merger of Eagle into mainline, what do you think would be the fair way of proceeding with that?

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 12/21/2002 6:43:50 PM KCFlyer wrote:





AAmech - You really don't want people to shop fares do you? A lot of airlines really DO offer a lower advance purchase fare than Southwest - but I dare say the those who do are not making any money on that seat. I'm sending my wife to San Diego on the 27th to see a bowl game. Tickets were less than 14 days in advance - the way out was fully refundable (full fare), the return was an advance purchase fare - the total ticket price was $500. Not bad at all for a "last minute" round trip (without a Saturday stay either).

But some might be choosing Southwest, even if the fare is higher, because they know that if their plans change, they won't be "hundred dollared" all over the place to make a change. I know that this is one big reason I'll fly SWA over the others.

[/BLOCKQUOTE]
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[/blockquote]

Please KC, put the word out for me, SHOP FOR FARES!!! My job depends on it! But there is no doubt about it WN is the KING of the last min fare. That is definitly their niche. I've bought fares on WN when I could'nt find an empty seat on AA. But its ironic how hostile people are to the $100.00 charge when it was WN who invented the $75.00 standby charge long ago when everyone else gave that away for free!

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/21/2002 926 PM AAmech wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]But its ironic how hostile people are to the $100.00 charge when it was WN who invented the $75.00 standby charge long ago when everyone else gave that away for free! [/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------
[BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]You've stumbled upon something here AAMech - As RES4LUV pointed out, there was never a fee to standby for a flight...you just paid the difference between what your ticket cost and what full one way fare is. If the difference between an advance fare and full one way fare is only $75 -people won't really complain. If plans change and I have to go back tomorrow instead of today, it's still only $75, whereas the big boys will charge me a hundred bucks to make the change, and then add on any additional airfare charges - which can be pretty stiff. CO tried to "fine" my mother for changing her return date by a day to the point where it was cheaper for her to buy a one way ticket on Airtran to get home. [/P]

 

[RES4LUV]

AAmech
I don't know where you got the $75.00 fee from but you're wrong. We've never had a set fee. If you have a refundable fare there is no charge to fly standby--however if you have a discount fare you pay the difference between your fare and the refundable. This could be a small amount or BIG bucks. The GOOD thing is you never lose your money because you have a year to use it on another LUV flt.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 829 AM Hopeful wrote:

A cousin of mine who lives in FLA needed to go from MCO to JFK due to a death in the family and had no choice but to purchase a walk up ticket. He went directly to the airport and went to JetBlue first, thought the walk up fare for a RT ticket was rather high for any airline's prices. He went on down to the American ticket counter and paid $80 less for that same walk up fare. American is meeting and in some cases beating JetBlue'sfares on competing routes. I suppose all AA needs now is TV in every seat,
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[/blockquote]

Do people really think JBlu and SWA don't sell tickets on "Orbitz and Travelocity because they want to "save a little commission money"? Give me a break. Those airlines are doing EXACTLY what the "cartel" airlines did in the past, they take advantage of the ignorance of the consumer to jack the price up when ever able. They DO NOT want their fares to show up "racked and stacked" on a website behind AMR, UAL and DAL fares. They WANT the consumer with the 28.8 connection speed to go to ONE web site, theirs, and purchase a ticket because he "knows" it will be cheaper than on the mainline carriers, when in fact it likely ISN'T. PRICING POWER! I went back and forth with KC on this with reference to UAL's fares out of IAD to the Bay area. Forbes quoted some idiot from "Booz Allen" who claimed his company saved about $1000 per trip by booking SWA out of BWI. We both checked, UAL was CHEAPER for an unrestricted ticket, and the "fastest" SWA option took over an hour of extra travel time vs the NS UAL AB with a meal and a movie.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 7:16:18 AM KCFlyer wrote:


CO tried to "fine" my mother for changing her return date by a day to the point where it was cheaper for her to buy a one way ticket on Airtran to get home. [/P]
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[/blockquote]

YOU LET YOUR MOM FLY VALUJET???!!!

 

[Hopeful]

The flying public needs to be better informed

 

[Hopeful]

A cousin of mine who lives in FLA needed to go from MCO to JFK due to a death in the family and had no choice but to purchase a walk up ticket. He went directly to the airport and went to JetBlue first, thought the walk up fare for a RT ticket was rather high for any airline's prices. He went on down to the American ticket counter and paid $80 less for that same walk up fare. American is meeting and in some cases beating JetBlue'sfares on competing routes. I suppose all AA needs now is TV in every seat,

 

[TAN 767 300]

Friends..I can't believe the defeatist attitude I have been seeing on here lately. IS this the airline that when the DOJ threatened to charge crandall with price fixing for his loose lipped remark to Howard Putnam pulled together to ridicule the Government? The pilots even, JOKINGLY!, threatened to bomb Wash.DC!?
Come on you guys, I am in sales, and am a Platnium AAdvantage member. Yes, I buy some low fares from your website..hey You ofer them..Yes, I pay soem high ones too. I can't pay the high ones like I used to..it's just a new fact of life..You guys had better get used to it, I have. My business cannot support those kinds of fares any more. profits are not what they were pre 9-11, sorry!

Like the rest of us, we got to work smarter, more efficient, etc. It's called survival. We got to look for new opportrunites for revenue & profits. That's why I flying,on AA, to Argentina in Jan., to increase my business.

People do not like to be around negative people, particularly when we are travelling and are already under a level of stress..gone from Home, office, kids, spouse.

You guys can either make or break your situation, as I see it its up to you. You can either drive customers away from AA or travel altogether, or make us feel as good as possible about placing our dollars with you.

Some suggestions:
Roll out Value pricing nationwide by spring. Make it stick this time, don't wimp out if NW bastardizes it for a while.

Treatus equal, no matter what fare we paid this time. You set the price, not me.(Do you offer wal-mart more money if you think an item is too low? I bet not!)

work on you effieciency..we all have to!

And, remember, Life will not be the same in The US since 9-11. It just isn't..so we better figure out how to move on.

On the side, I find it interesting how some of you think "dubwa" is somehow cozied up with the chiefs of some airlines. I really think his mind is on far more important items right now...Like manical dictators with weapons of mass destruction, and new missles from N. Korea that could reach Hawaii...you know, things like that. Give it a rest.

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas...and a happy New year. It will be what you make it!

TAN

 

[bagsmasher]

will fix for food wrote:
Bagsmasher, It is pretty obvious that you have a problem with the seniority integration of the TWA people. With the APA advocating a merger of Eagle into mainline, what do you think would be the fair way of proceeding with that?


Yes you are right I have a big problem with the integration, but I place the blame squarely on Carty for valuing this deal more than his own employees.
If we merger with Eagle, I'm sure AA will figure out a way to make everyone involved pissed off.
My whole point is that we can never have a culture like WN when we screw all of our employees.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 12/22/2002 930 AM bagsmasher wrote:
[P]Yes you are right I have a big problem with the integration, but I place the blame squarely on Carty for valuing this deal more than his own employees.[BR]If we merger with Eagle, I'm sure AA will figure out a way to make everyone involved pissed off.[BR]My whole point is that we can never have a culture like WN when we screw all of our employees. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Not to mention the fact that, interdepartmentally, a lot of AA'ers seem to loathe each other for whatever reason. There is no "one big happy family" and everytime I hear Carty speak of the AA Family, I just chuckle and remember the last FA Bìtch fight I happened to see, or the last time I saw a TSA Air Marshall demand special treatment at the gates and the agents argue about who has to escort his lazy ass to his free first class seat.[BR][BR]The Carty administration has done nothing but divide and pit employees at AA against one another and anyone who doesn't think there is a specific method to his madness in that respect....better think again. A house divided 99% of the time....can NOT be brought together the 1% of the time when employees need each other....say for a union vote? [/P]

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 8:31:06 AM Busdrvr wrote:


[/blockquote]

Do people really think JBlu and SWA don't sell tickets on "Orbitz and Travelocity because they want to "save a little commission money"? Give me a break. Those airlines are doing EXACTLY what the "cartel" airlines did in the past, they take advantage of the ignorance of the consumer to jack the price up when ever able. They DO NOT want their fares to show up "racked and stacked" on a website behind AMR, UAL and DAL fares. They WANT the consumer with the 28.8 connection speed to go to ONE web site, theirs, and purchase a ticket because he "knows" it will be cheaper than on the mainline carriers, when in fact it likely ISN'T. PRICING POWER! I went back and forth with KC on this with reference to UAL's fares out of IAD to the Bay area. Forbes quoted some idiot from "Booz Allen" who claimed his company saved about $1000 per trip by booking SWA out of BWI. We both checked, UAL was CHEAPER for an unrestricted ticket, and the "fastest" SWA option took over an hour of extra travel time vs the NS UAL AB with a meal and a movie.

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[/blockquote]

Like I said, they are marketing geniuses at WN!! My neighbor had a similar experience when she was flying her son home from Virgina to TUL. She was all set to buy a ticket on WN when I suggested she try Travelocity. She though I was nuts but went on-line and found a ticket on AA $75.00 cheaper and 2+ hours faster! She couldn't belive it! She, like others just assume that AA and others charge more. This kind of marketing power definitly keeps their revenues high.

 

[Busdrvr]

[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 1011 AM AAmech wrote:


Like I said, they are marketing geniuses at WN!! My neighbor had a similar experience when she was flying her son home from Virgina to TUL. She was all set to buy a ticket on WN when I suggested she try Travelocity. She though I was nuts but went on-line and found a ticket on AA $75.00 cheaper and 2+ hours faster! She couldn't belive it! She, like others just assume that AA and others charge more. This kind of marketing power definitly keeps their revenues high.
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[/blockquote]

Back when I was a mere mortal (before I became an Airline pilot), I had the same experience. I needed to go from OK City to Tucson. despite SWA serving Both cities, they gave me the "you can't get there from here" line. They could get me to PHX though. Luckily AMR was cheaper to TUS. Took a few extra minutes of "research", but well worth the effort. AMR even gave me a SEAT!!! IMAGINE THAT! and not one stripper or drunk that I could see!

 

[AAmech]

[blockquote]
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On 12/22/2002 638 AM RES4LUV wrote:

AAmech
I don't know where you got the $75.00 fee from but you're wrong. We've never had a set fee. If you have a refundable fare there is no charge to fly standby--however if you have a discount fare you pay the difference between your fare and the refundable. This could be a small amount or BIG bucks. The GOOD thing is you never lose your money because you have a year to use it on another LUV flt.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Thanks for the info Res. I thought it was a flat fee. No matter what the fee, a year ago most airlines allowed standby for Free. I remember the good ole days when I flew CO and changed a tick to return to the US from another Country and there was NO CHARGE!! Imagine That![img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif']