Ward running for President again?

[StraaightTaalk]

There is a leadership drain at APFA in a big way. Even the Negotiator candidates are nothing to write home about. A lot of retreads and some others who are a step away from the looney bin.

NONE OF THE ABOVE if I had my way, but alas, I have to vote..... I guess it will come down to the lesser of evils.

JMHO,
s80dude

I agree. Not a great field of candidates. There was an email going around, written by one of the chairpeople, with the chairperson's personal endorsements, and even he or she was not excited about the choices. I have it sitting around somewhere.

I already sent my ballot in.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I'd forgotten about Ward refusing to accept the election results... That would make it a little difficult for me to support bringing him back.

Yes, that was truly one of APFA's worst moments. Some say that the DOL was within days of taking over.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Pat Gibbs was closer to killing us than john ward and his antics. We have had some very good past presidents and some sorry, very sorry SOB's. Is it just me or do the sorrier one's seem to all come from a certain Texas base?

another way to tell something about a past president. Since you cannot compare contract to contract, very easy. Look through letters of agreement with the company to see what was happening and what was negotiated to our benefit and what was to our detriment.

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"OH BOY, you HAD to get me started, did'nt you Mikey"................BUT you're right.

Look at any NO votes, against the company, from ANY of the AA unions, and the LEAST amount of support come from.............(Drum roll please)....................DAL-A$$ :down:

As low as union membership is(now) in the country, my "triangle" and "straight line" theory is STILL very accurate.

(generally speaking)...REAL union people reside in the following areas
Straight line........................LAX-SFO-PDX-SEA !!!

Triangle...................BOS to DCA to ORD to BOS !!!

Lone exception.........Railroad folks nationwide.

 

[nbmcg01]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"OH BOY, you HAD to get me started, did'nt you Mikey"................BUT you're right.

Look at any NO votes, against the company, from ANY of the AA unions, and the LEAST amount of support come from.............(Drum roll please)....................DAL-A$$ :down:

As low as union membership is(now) in the country, my "triangle" and "straight line" theory is STILL very accurate.

(generally speaking)...REAL union people reside in the following areas
Straight line........................LAX-SFO-PDX-SEA !!!

Triangle...................BOS to DCA to ORD to BOS !!!

Lone exception.........Railroad folks nationwide.

Oh, I don't know about that....STL was the lone "strong" no vote...I believe it was 3 "yae"...

 

[nbmcg01]

Remember there was NO negotiating with AA... They said "take it or we'll file " end of story. The RPA was the best APFA could do ... now you think BK would have been better ??? Look around and see what the other carriers got from a trip or two through BK. He knew this RPA was the best we were going to get. Imagine a BK judge on AA side... you talk about furlough pay being gone... !!!

Are you kidding me? There is always negotiations. Do you honestly think AA (as much of a control freak as they are) wanted ot open the books for the world to see (and have some Judge ttell them how to spend their money)? Not a chance... And yes I do fuss over furlough pay when it was given away without ANY credit.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Oh, I don't know about that....STL was the lone "strong" no vote...I believe it was 3 "yae"...

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My apologies .."01". I forget sometimes that STL does have a number of strong union people in the city, such as "Budweiser"(AB), and as you mentioned TWA.

I'm just not too convinced about the rest of the state though.

 

[nbmcg01]

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My apologies .."01". I forget sometimes that STL does have a number of strong union people in the city, such as "Budweiser"(AB), and as you mentioned TWA.

I'm just not too convinced about the rest of the state though.

LOL..We did vote a deceased man into the Senate (over Ashcroft). But then the State also went "red". Go figure.

 

[Maark767]

IF AA had seriously wanted to stay out of BK do you honestly think the f/as COULD have broken the bank? Not hardly. AA played hardball and JW was still in the minor leagues. The pilots were so concerned about their pensions being placed into PBGC that they would have sold their first born and 3rd wife. What the unions failed to "get" was the fact that AA had come to them requesting help. It is nothing short of BS that the unions didn't have any clout. You say "NO", "Come back when you're serious about negotiating". It wasn't about the $$s, the APFA was willing to give them the requested $340, 000,000. They just messed up on how the numbers were generated. There is always negotiating in a concessionary environment. Many of us offered behind the scenes assistance (been there) but we were totally ignored...so we voted NO. Didn't make any difference because even with a no vote, AA and the APFA colluded to fix the outcome. And for that (and my career) I hold JW responsible.

Think things are bad here... go and talk to DL, UA and US f/a's... After it's all said and done, we still have the best contract out there.. Things would be alot different if we had gone through BK...
Dont think for one minute the company was not going to filep... all of wall street was watching and waiting.
Even the Brooklyn court house was waiting as well....

 

[nbmcg01]

Think things are bad here... go and talk to DL, UA and US f/a's... After it's all said and done, we still have the best contract out there.. Things would be alot different if we had gone through BK...
Dont think for one minute the company was not going to filep... all of wall street was watching and waiting.
Even the Brooklyn court house was waiting as well....

Not over the f/as... Ward caved and missed a opportunity to be a great labor leader. I think the work rules were "not the best" before the illegal RPA. Now with the loss of pay....well you get my drift. I ran the "figures" and elected to stay in the private sector because of pay, benefits, and work rules. And the big question is whether the APFA is prepared for the next round. My guess is no. 'Tis a shame. I'm not certain where I would have had more fun, negotiating for the company or the union...

 

[Maark767]

Not over the f/as... Ward caved and missed a opportunity to be a great labor leader. I think the work rules were "not the best" before the illegal RPA. Now with the loss of pay....well you get my drift. I ran the "figures" and elected to stay in the private sector because of pay, benefits, and work rules. And the big question is whether the APFA is prepared for the next round. My guess is no. 'Tis a shame. I'm not certain where I would have had more fun, negotiating for the company or the union...

I think he did a good job ..... Anyone in his postion at that time would have had no other optioins either...
Come on .. AA was going to get the cuts ...period. Either in a RPA or at the court house. Take your pick..
Everyone liked him when we got the great contract 2 years prior....

 

[eolesen]

Yeah, well, 50.000001% of the popular vote liked Al Gore at one point. Now, I doubt he could get elected to the board of a homeowners association, let alone run for a real public office again...

 

[StraaightTaalk]

I think he did a good job ..... Anyone in his postion at that time would have had no other optioins either...
Come on .. AA was going to get the cuts ...period. Either in a RPA or at the court house. Take your pick..
Everyone liked him when we got the great contract 2 years prior....

The major work on the great contract had already been done by the original negotiating team for the first tentative agreement.

Don't get me wrong. I support APFA fully. I am sure it is very difficult to be union president. I do expect him, however, to respect the vote of the membership, which I am not sure he does.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

As if THB is any better. THB is the queen of LOA's. John has a better chance, now that the TW block vote is severly diminished. Not to say that I would vote for John, but I won't say today that I wouldn't vote for him.

The TWA voters will matter since I am guessing that more than 1000 will be back on the line by the time the vote comes up. Don't forget it was only a few votes that threw his ass out of office. And I can assure you that every former TWA f/a will vote, but not for him. We will once again block vote

John not only screwed the TWA'ers but his own as well. The RPA was a farce and illegal. How do you vote twice?

Tommie is no prize, but I am sure there is a much better candidate out there. From what I hear Tommie is not running again.

 

[FA Mikey]

Think things are bad here... go and talk to DL, UA and US f/a's... After it's all said and done, we still have the best contract out there.. Things would be alot different if we had gone through BK...
Dont think for one minute the company was not going to filep... all of wall street was watching and waiting.
Even the Brooklyn court house was waiting as well....

True BK would have been rough no question. Had it gotten to that. I agree with Nancy AA would not have gone into BK without a FA agreement, at that moment. With two in the bag, we would be icing on the cake. Had they been forced to wait out a 30 day vote VS. the JW shortened unsecured one they pulled on us all. Thing might be a whole lot different. Not saying better, not saying worse. But what we had a was a child, make that a rotten spoiled child pretending to do a grown ups job.

Wall street missed the boat while Don Carty let the company hemorrhage where were they? Where were the concerned stock holders? Why wasnt there a forced change prior to the last 10 mins of the sinking of the Titanic? Where was the union leadership?

It was obvious this couldn't go on indefinitely. At some point the time would come for concessions. They meaning APFA leadership, The whiz kid, Mr. know it all. They should have had a plan, and a valuation for every part of our CBA. Then in the unlikely event it was not needed. It would be as the saying goes "better to have and not need, then need and not have."

Now add to the fact that Mr. ward had just, as he likes to say, secured the greatest contract ever for the FA's, yet when it came time to take it apart he knew nothing, no true value of any part of it. We got screwed because john ward is an incompetent hack at his best, and God bless us all if that was his best and shining moment.

 

[IORFA]

The TWA voters will matter since I am guessing that more than 1000 will be back on the line by the time the vote comes up. Don't forget it was only a few votes that threw his ass out of office. And I can assure you that every former TWA f/a will vote, but not for him. We will once again block vote

John not only screwed the TWA'ers but his own as well. The RPA was a farce and illegal. How do you vote twice?

Tommie is no prize, but I am sure there is a much better candidate out there. From what I hear Tommie is not running again.

1000 doesn't matter. If not for the 3000 + TW F/A's voting for THB, she wouldn't have had a chance. Besides, you don't need to be active to vote. Either active or furloughed, but with recall rights still active. I find it funny that after 6 years, some people still haven't moved on. JW didn't buy TW, he just made sure that the seniority integration the members wanted happened. If your eyes were open at all, you should have seen it coming. It wasn't like we didn't do it before. Let alone in 1999. Oh yeah, that's right, you think the Reno F/A's are somehow less equal to TW in that regard. I am not trying to start this mess again, just pointing out that the TW block is severly diminished. Just like I said the first time. At some point the hatred must lessen, doesn't it? Out of curiosity, how close are you to gracing us with your pleasant demeanor?