Vp Meeting In Phl

[UseYourHead]

Well they say we will not run at PHL. But we ran at BWI. Every flight we pulled was full. We could easily have more flight at BWI. There are numerous customers day in and day out who fly to PHL and LGA on a Dash 8 to connect to MHT, BOS,PVD etc. This because the do not want to fly WN or FL. These Dash 8s are constantly full. So how many customers are we turning away? Recently got an evening jet back at 6p for PHL. Full almost every night. 20 or more conx to just to BOS on it.

Well, the past does not necessarily equal the future. We can address all of those issues. The cost equation here has greatly changed since MetroJet, and my guess is that one way or another it is about to improve yet again.

The bottom line is...we will fill the airplanes, and with competitive cost structure we can do it at a nice profit. This in turn will equal job security, and the possibility of advancement and growth.

No doubt, the devil is in the details....

 

[UseYourHead]

Everyone’s comparing U's route structure to WN's. In 1987 Piedmont had a midsize hub in CLT and very small hub in BWI. Those flights represented about 50% of Piedmonts total. The rest were point to point. Piedmont connected two medium size cities into a big one. Example CHS ORF LGA. There was a medium sized market between CHS and ORF, CHS and LGA and also between ORF and LGA. The aircraft stayed full the entire route. Another great routing was ORD-RIC-ORF-BOS. That flight ran a 98% load factor year round. There was some creative pricing going on between ORD and BOS and it worked. U abandoned the strategy in the early 90’s. And the completion has been picking us apart since. That strategy sounds a little like WN's.

I am a former Piedmont pilot, therefore I too have lived, and continue to work in the mist of all this. I know we did most things right at Piedmont...unfortunately, we don't work for boss Hog and Gordon any longer.

We also had a hub in Dayton, and Syracuse as well. Our current route system is our starting point today. We could debate hubs vs. point-to-point, both have merit. FWIW, I think for a mainline full service airline, hubs are far superior for many reasons.

Having said that, neither will work if the business is not solvent, and that is best accomplished by all of us working together to insure OUR futures. I agree with diogenes that an athmosphere of mutual respect would go along way towards patching up open wounds...however, we lose if that untimately does not get worked out....

BTW, I used to enjoy flying the TPA-JAX-ORF-LGA pairing (I commute from TPA). Of course over the years I also enjoyed TPA-LAX, TPA-IND, TPA-CMH, MCO-ROC, MCO-BUF, or how about MIA-APF-TPA-PNS-MIA-GNV?

 

[UseYourHead]

Having said that, neither will work if the business is not solvent, and that is best accomplished by all of us working together to insure OUR futures. I agree with diogenes that an athmosphere of mutual respect would go along way towards patching up open wounds...however, we lose if that untimately does not get worked out....

Same tune, different airline. The difference is, NWA is not currently as fragile as we are....


Northwest targets labor costs
If you take away the cost of labor, Northwest Airlines and AirTran Airways, a rapidly growing low-fare carrier, had identical operating costs in the third quarter.

"The biggest issue we have facing us is our labor costs," Bernie Han, Northwest's chief financial officer, told Wall Street analysts Wednesday at a New York conference.

Han used detailed charts to underscore the huge divide between Northwest's labor and non-labor costs. After seven rounds of cost-cutting since 2001, Northwest is renewing its commitment to reduce its annual labor costs by about $1 billion a year -- a goal the airline's labor unions do not all share.

 

[delldude]

Well they say we will not run at PHL. But we ran at BWI. Every flight we pulled was full. We could easily have more flight at BWI. There are numerous customers day in and day out who fly to PHL and LGA on a Dash 8 to connect to MHT, BOS,PVD etc. This because the do not want to fly WN or FL. These Dash 8s are constantly full. So how many customers are we turning away? Recently got an evening jet back at 6p for PHL. Full almost every night. 20 or more conx to just to BOS on it.

ATOGUY-how right you are...we ceeded territory and now our competitors are staring us in the face.....and they took good advantage of our blunder...even seth knew the dangers of shrinking into profitability.....it doesn't work.

 

[PITbull]

Bob,
After reading your above post, I am of trhe opinion that you have a very low opinion of what employees can and can not do after U. There is life after USAirways. Just ask the 20,000 that are on the street. If you think they are all on welfare, think again.

As far as ownership, you still did not define what that means. The only thing you said is that it is not my company. When I speak, I speak as a collective body, Bob.
I am not sure you understand this. Again I will say, Collectively the employees are the second largest stock holders in the company, more than mangement collectively. So I ask, what defines ownership to you?

This is our company as employees COLLECTIVELY.

Use Your Head, (Poster)
Nice try. I'll tell you what this union member gets.... Please don't tell me about your reality. Reality is this, IF you are a rank and file unionized employee, you are still on the property because you hold the seniority to do so. So I can understand how you want and need to be SAVED! And then again, if you are management, more than likely, you have been on the proeprty 18 months, again I emphatically understand how you want to be SAVED to continue your employment on the backs of who ever you can convince, or eliminate.

Just when will mangement "get it" that you can't shrink to profitability, and that they need to start addressing the revenue part of the equation, instead of labor costs over and over and over again. Or don't they know how? Or in your estimation, are they not to be held accountable for this matter we as a company find ourselves in????

 

[diogenes]

Let's see if a repost will take.

1. Employees get it. We have the most to lose. Don't equate union with ignorance. Ignorance is also found in the boardroom and the seat of government. Ignorance knows no class, it afflicts the rich as well as the poor.

2. Kindly outline the other side of the trough for employees. Will now-furloughed employees return to meaningful service anytime soon? When will any of us return to 2000 purchasing power? I'm guessing never. Just as our economic 'recovery' is jobless, I fear U's recovery will leave employees at the short end of the stick. Dave himself has said, on numerous occasions, the cost cuts will be permanent. Employee costs are always mentioned in his speeches. I'm taking him at his word.

3. The blame game. OK, Schofield, W&G are gone (although their plans and minions are still with us). The blame I'm hearing is CCY blaming employee costs for U's dilemma. Several thoughtful posts on other threads dissect that assertion, and point out salaries and benefits are ONE part of CASM, not ALL. Does not the business plan, where management has sole initiative, bear some responsibility? Cannot resources be more effectively deployed? Bottom line - contracts are not hindering productivity, the BUSINESS PLAN is hindering productivity. I don't know how it works with everybody else, but I've yet to have a discussion with CCY regarding the business plan. And while we're on the subject, we've been out of BK a few months, and the business climate has changed to an unforseeable degree? To the point of more cost cuts? The first thing I'd do is fire my current prognosticators, and hire new ones.

4. Another question for the Palace. Are employees the problem, or are employees the solution? Of course, the cynical answer is we are the solution - there are more wages and benefits to be slashed. Seriously, if CCY thinks employees have something other than $$ to offer, they've done a masterful job disguising it.

5. Pulling the rope in the same direction, or cooperation. Well, cooperation cannot be coerced, unless one believes, to paraphrase Mao, cooperation comes from the barrel of a gun, or the threat of Chapt. 11/7. And cooperation is not defined as CEO knows best, do what he says and shut the hell up. And by the way, be glad you still have a job.

6. The vocal minority. For every poster in my station, there are a dozen viewers. Many themes I post have been vigorously discussed in my station prior to any postings. I don't have all the answers, and I find such debate educational. Moreover, according to Harvard Business Review, your computer and internet-savvy employees trend towards the upper percentiles. U should want these folks onboard, as opposed to dismissing us. Easy to dismiss us; wiser to engage us.

7.If you don't like it, leave.Had the Founders believed that, we'd still be sipping tea and singing God Save the Queen. Those are not my only options. I can do a professional job for U, AND be an activist for U to be a success for ALL stakeholders, including we employees.

I'd recommend 'The Art of War' to the Palace.

"If people are treated with benevolence, faithfulness and justice, then they will be of one mind, and will be glad to serve....Joyful in difficulty, the people forget about their death."

Zang Yu, of the Sung Dynasty, in his commentary on Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War.'

It's only been around a few thousand years.


Author's note: This is my second post that quotes and responds to another poster. For whatever reason, the quotes have been altered or deleted. Moderators have been advised. Back to you when it's cleared up.

 

[UseYourHead]

Use Your Head, (Poster)
Nice try. I'll tell you what this union member gets.... Please don't tell me about your reality. Reality is this, IF you are a rank and file unionized employee, you are still on the property because you hold the seniority to do so. So I can understand how you want and need to be SAVED! And then again, if you are management, more than likely, you have been on the proeprty 18 months, again I emphatically understand how you want to be SAVED to continue your employment on the backs of who ever you can convince, or eliminate.

Just when will mangement "get it" that you can't shrink to profitability, and that they need to start addressing the revenue part of the equation, instead of labor costs over and over and over again. Or don't they know how? Or in your estimation, are they not to be held accountable for this matter we as a company find ourselves in????

PitBull,

I am a line employee, just like you, not management. I view the prospect of a job loss for me as a second choice as far as what I would prefer. It wound not be the end of the world. I do think my first choice, is a much better option. The reality is, although many say that there are other jobs out there, and that’s true, there are, the reality is they are no where near as good as the one we have here. I am honest with myself and others when talking about this jobs, job prospects, etc.

I hear out on the line, because I am a line pilot who flies a full schedule every month, that there is no plan; there is no leadership, etc. When I ask if they listen to the analyst conference calls, transportation conferences, and so on, the answer 99.999% of the time is no.

Well, the plan is (as reiterated as recent as yesterday) to park mainline aircraft down to 279 (which is done), and get a bunch of smaller jets flown by other pilots, and worked by other ground folks. 185 70-seat jets will pick up much of the market share that has been dropped since 9-11. And then there is the other 300 50-seat jets coming online as well. That is the plan, the mainline shrinking is largely over, except shrinking headcount due to attrition, the slack picked up by work rule changes. The growth is MidAtlantic, and wholly owned Jets4Jobs participants, as well as contract carriers.

Do I like this? I hate it! I have been adversely affected in a BIG way. What are my options? Our options?

Well, I could just quite, or take a LOA. I have already re-enrolled in College getting a new career started, if I need to go that direction.

I could also do my part to make US Airways a success, by continuing to be a professional, and not lower myself to the level that management has seemed to sink to. Do I believe we should enforce our contract...YES, Do I believe management should live up to their promises...YES!

On the other hand, do I see the economic realities clearly? You know, college has really opened my eyes, in a big way. In my late 40s, I am in school with others my age, younger and older...one thing is clear listening to everyone’s experience...it is a very cold and difficult world out there. Ours is not the only industry to have gone through times like these.

The bottom line is we adapt or die, no one cares...except maybe...us. We will be a party to either making US Airways a success, or joining our place in history next to Eastern, PanAm, Braniff, Midway, and the list goes on.

Now, do I think management can do better on the revenue side...yes, should they be held accountable...yes. It is not all labor costs, which is proven by watching our prior management teams flounder through the last two decades.

Labor costs are but one (the largest) piece of the pie, probably explaining the big bulls eye on them. NWA, DAL, UAL, AA, they all have their hands in labors pockets. The sad sad truth is, the ones who are successful in getting lower costs, through both management execution, as well as labor cost reductions are the ones who will be left standing. Conversely, the groups who "hold the line" are going to become members of the chapter 7 club. AA and UAL have already drastically cut, washing out much of the effect of our givebacks to date, the others are a year or so behind. And the already low cost providers are headed our way just as quickly as they can take delivery of aircraft.

I wish things were different....


BTW, I will add a comment to those who would like to see Siegel and team thrown-out. I remember when the call was to throw Gangwal out after the failure of the UAL-US merger...my comment was then, "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it." That seemed crazy to many at the time, since then, I have heard many on this forum wish Gangwal was still here...he was a man of his word, and so on.

While I will be the first to telegraph this group as extremely labor unfriendly, probably largely lead by Glass, but certainly endorsed, if not designed by Siegel, I think we should realize that there are far worse out there...Iccan for example.

I will say it again today, we should be careful what we wish for....

 

[PITbull]

Use Your Head,

If you haven't noticed, the Icahn and lorenzo "off springs" are here. Same animal.

I am all for keeping a ship afloat, but not to take out 30,000 jobs and save 10,000, which is mostly driven by most senior folks on the property to keep their jobs, and ALL of mangement. That is not my idea of saving anything. Nope, not there.

Choices? If Bronner can't see the light, and change this managemnt, that will at the very least, boost morale so that we can even consider playing as "team", then we can either concede to more costs savings and do more for much less, come to work for almost free, permit them to eliminate even more of us.... or go down with the ship together.

You know from all my postings, where I am at with this.

 

[UseYourHead]

Use Your Head,

If you haven't noticed, the Icahn and lorenzo "off springs" are here. Same animal.

I am all for keeping a ship afloat, but not to take out 30,000 jobs and save 10,000, which is mostly driven by most senior folks on the property to keep their jobs, and ALL of mangement. That is not my idea of saving anything. Nope, not there.

Choices? If Bronner can't see the light, and change this managemnt, that will at the very least, boost morale so that we can even consider playing as "team", then we can either concede to more costs savings and do more for much less, come to work for almost free, permit them to eliminate even more of us.... or go down with the ship together.

You know from all my postings, where I am at with this.

Understand and respect your views, they do differ from mine. BTW, I am not senior enough (not even close) to be included in that scenario....

 

[FlyingHippie]

I am a former Piedmont pilot, therefore I too have lived, and continue to work in the mist of all this. I know we did most things right at Piedmont...unfortunately, we don't work for boss Hog and Gordon any longer.

We also had a hub in Dayton, and Syracuse as well. Our current route system is our starting point today. We could debate hubs vs. point-to-point, both have merit. FWIW, I think for a mainline full service airline, hubs are far superior for many reasons.

Having said that, neither will work if the business is not solvent, and that is best accomplished by all of us working together to insure OUR futures. I agree with diogenes that an athmosphere of mutual respect would go along way towards patching up open wounds...however, we lose if that untimately does not get worked out....

BTW, I used to enjoy flying the TPA-JAX-ORF-LGA pairing (I commute from TPA). Of course over the years I also enjoyed TPA-LAX, TPA-IND, TPA-CMH, MCO-ROC, MCO-BUF, or how about MIA-APF-TPA-PNS-MIA-GNV?

Useyourhead, I am a former USAir employee. Believe me when I tell you this prior to all the mergers when this airline WAS the premier place to work. I choose to work at USAir over Piedmont, American, Continental and Northwest because they simply treated their employees the best. Ed Colodny, a great man, knew how to treat people. It sickens me to this day to see how far this company has eroded. Yes, we know all the former Piedmont employees were proud of their company, so was PSA, and Trump Shuttle. I don't look back until I read posts like yours. I scratch my head and wonder why this continues to be brought up. It doesn't matter what the tail colors are these days we're all in the same boat. Just remember we all lost something.

 

[cavalier]

Why is it that EVERY employee that come on here with an opposing point of view assumed to be MANAGEMENT? Some are obvious, others like Use Your head seem different and non confrontational.

The sense of entitlement on this board AMAZES me. What basis in law or in fact to you have that a company OWES you a job? Explain that to me please.

I agree in basics, however: This management team has broken every contract and promise it has ever made, even tried screwing with the government. Have done zero to correct the real problems and are only interested in beating the employees to death. So what you are reading is a direct result of these facts and I would say to be expected and not surprising in the least.

 

[deltawatch]

FlyingHippie.... didn't mean to bring up the OLD PI/U merger thing again. My point was that after the merger we seem to abandon the point to point thing all together. Piedmont kept its competitors at bay with it. Use it to enter new markets. I think we should return to 40% point to point as soon as possible. Will the RJ’s accomplish it???

 

[UseYourHead]

I absolutely agree, the past does not equal the future...all that really matters now is what happens going forward. And I agree USAir was a great place to work back then.

As far as I'm concerned it still is!

Do I want to see things get allot better, you bet! I will do my part....

BTW, if point-to-point is the right thing to do bring it on...I am not convinced it is....

 

[Fatherknowsbest]

You are letting flying hippie off much too easy. Colodny a great man?

Let's see, bought PSA Airlines, didn't know what to do with it....invested half a billion and then just gave up on it. Uprooted thousands of employees and families to the east coast, purchased homes/paid moves.....comes to another half a billion wasted, dropped all the cities, parked all the planes!

Think PSA employees think him a great man? THINK again.

Next great move. Overpaid for Piedmont that already had a deal with Norfolk & Western. Got rid of PI Management cause only US Air management was good enough.......Hey Gordon you dumb son of a gun....you aren't good enough for the number 7 Airline, how you doing at CAL?

Colodny a great man? He's the fool who started the tailspin.

Ya see....it looks a little different from the perspective of the vanquished!

 

[Fatherknowsbest]

I decided I would add to my previous post.

I would love to have Ed Colodny as my Uncle. He really is a NICE man.
He's the kind of guy I'd like to have for a neighbor too.

I do believe that he meant well when he tried to put the Mergers together. He did this to try to save the Airline (for the longterm) that he loved.

It is the best example ever of the law of unintended consequences!

If the man had just had the forsight to keep all of the airlines seperate, it all might have worked. These Airlines could have just connected passengers to each other and much money could have been saved (also much heartache and furloughs). Once US Air reached "big" megacarrier status, she was ruined because the management that was kept was unable to cope withe the chage from regional to trunk airline.


PSA was the king of the quickturn,have fun, low cost.....
PIEDMONT was the darling of Wallstreet for a reason....loved by the public for excellent Customer Service, and in a big growth mode that worried poor Ed to death. Dayton and Syracuse hubs were hurting AL yields.

US Air was loved by her employees because employees were treated well...paid well, because lets face it, all the employee raises were just passed on to the passengers at PIT and PHL.

Can you name ANY Airline where so many former employees have been pissed on fired and left for dead? I can't think of one!

Things are so bad these days that only Dave (10 years too late RJ maven) Siegel believes that he can turn things around.

It's been a pleasure to work with many good people who also happen to be great employees. People who come from all kinds of backgrounds and airlines. All that they have ever needed is a smart, decent guy/gal to lead.

That is the biggest frustration. We have the finest employees in the world with truly the most inept management I have ever witnissed!

It may not be too late, but the odds are long and Siegel/Bronner (only here for the quick buck) MUST leave in the very near future.

Good luck to all U employees/families and the passenger base that tries to stay with us as our schedule gets smaller and smaller!
:angry: