View Changer --- The Story of Alliance

[WorldTraveler]

WN didn't welcome unions, they just tolerated them.... and the unions at WN have been kept happy because WN has been able to shovel dough at their employees at a rate that has far exceeded what other airlines have been able to do.

WN is not dumb. They are going to dramatically reduce the amount of wealth that they transfer to their employees because they don't need to do it as fast as they once did - and their employees won't have a whole lot of room to complain.

I doubt if there are very many WN employees who believe their economic prospects at WN will continue to be as great as they once were.... WN is a mature airline now competing in many markets alongside network carriers.

They are smart and will adapt and will learn from the mistakes of the network carriers but unions at WN will not continue to "bring home the bacon" at the rate they once did.
And remember there are a whole lot of FL employees who will never have a chance to experience the economic success that WN has provided its own employees.... WN's unions and the company are smart enough to realize the pie is not big enough to share w/ everyone so they are just going to cancel the dinner party and send the guests home before they try to divide the pie up into tiny pieces.

 

[Kev3188]

If they take home a paycheck in any shape or form, they are getting help. I believe Target and Wal-Mart provides some level of employee discount which means their employees do obtain some tangible help w/ living.

Oh good. So we're one step closer to going back to the "company store" model. Great rationalization.

And a discount still doesn't matter much to someone making very little.

If the economy didn’t have double digit unemployment levels under multiple administrations, it would be a whole lot easier to justify pay raises and an increase in the minimum wage.

It's plenty easy to justify raising the minimum wage; you've just bought into the idea that it's not.

You can shop at local stores if you want, but practically all large merchants use large numbers of minimum wage workers. It is practically impossible to buy everything a typical American household NEEDS, let alone wants, w/o using super-sized retailers. If you can figure out how to avoid it, post a log of your shopping activity and let us know how it is done.

Nobody needs to see my shopping list. Since you "keep up," you know that I've listed plenty of options for people in just about any spending category in other threads. In this one, "buy local" covers just about any consumer good you can think of.

The reason why the airline industry has been the focus of business’ efforts to is because it is THE remaining industry that is so heavily unionized while at the same time is also so heavily unionized. Government and utilities have equal or higher levels of unionization but both have structural protections, even if some of those are falling.

Aviation is not the only "not protected" sector with high density.

You can make the discussion political if you want, but the decision is economic….

Actually, it's both, since big business has taken over so much of the political machine in this country.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have not said anything that says I don't support raising the minimum wage... it just is a mighty hard to justify gov'tF, spending increases, increased economic regulation, and/or higher taxes when the economy is only flying a couple hundred feet AGL w/ one of the two engines shut down and the other one sputtering.

It is no different to think that increasing the minimum wage should reflect overall strength in the economy as it does to say that pay raises should come only when the economy can handle it.

BTW, I do happen to believe that the minimum wage should be raised at least for large employers simply because the rationale that is often used as to the impact an increase will have is based on small business which actually hires a relatively small percentage of minimum wage workers.

But let's also not forget that ObamaCare will result in one of the largest taxe increases on business in decades as the working poor now are provided far more in private sector health benefits than the sector has ever received, and that will come at the expense of higher income consumers and businesses.

I am not seeing it is impossible to buy what you need in locally owned stores but simply based on the volume of sales of small businesses relative to large businesses, it is unrealstic to think that even a majority of people are going to shift their buying to local businesses; and just because big retailers have a high number of minimum wage workers doesn't necessarily mean that local businesses don't as well. Unless you ask a store for their payroll information (plz videotape the question and response) then I don't think you are really accomplishing much by saying you will shift your buying to small stores in order to boost the standard of living of local employees.

As painful as it is to admit, the US did not become the world's largest economy because of gov't spending but because American businesses were creative and aggressive in developing and growing markets.
And the US is STILL the world's largest economy even w other countries serving as large suppliers of consumer goods.

Plz share info on what other large consumer or even private sector industries have equally high levels of unionization and have gotten off alot better than the airline industry.

 

[737823]

They didn't work for free; he mentioned being paid on the union scale. Target will spend all kinds of money fighting it's own workers, and use union people to do so. Ironic.

As for their values? His rationale in your clip seemed feeble at best.

OTOH, AFTRA is also home to such "friends of labor" as Limbaugh, Hannity, and Bill O'Reilly, so maybe it's the wrong question to be asking...

Well then maybe the labor movement should look within themselves and see who really is the face of the movement and representing labors interests and positions. Many unionists similarly regard the IATSE as a hollow/weak/worthless union filled with anti-union studio and corporate apologists that have given up benefits, work rules and scope too.

And a Dallas Texas one too.

Funny the only airline based in Dallas, Texas is Southwest Airlines. American Airlines, a unit of AMR Corporation is based in Fort Worth, Texas.

In its 42nd year of service, Dallas-based Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) offers a reliable product and continues to differentiate itself from other low-fare carriers by providing exemplary Customer Service. Along with wholly owned subsidiary AirTran Airways, the Company now serves 97 destinations in 41 states, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, six near-international countries, and employs approximately 46,000 People.

Founded in 1930, American Airlines, formerly American Airways, Inc., was the result of the consolidation of more than 80 small airlines into The Aviation Corporation. American Airways, Inc. officially became American Airlines, Inc. in 1934, the same year C.R. Smith became president of the company. The airline began trading on the New York Stock Exchange on June 10, 1939. Originally headquartered in New York City, where it continues to maintain a strong presence, American moved its headquarters to Fort Worth, Texas, in 1979 and has since become one of the largest airlines in the world, contributing nearly $100 billion to the U.S. and international economies.

Josh

 

[777 fixer]

Please, like you really care about anybody but yourself.

Like I've said before, if AA were to disappear the millions of people they fly would not stay home, other carriers would pick up their slots, their routes, their planes and their people. Pan Am went away, so did EAL and those that remained picked up all those things then and the same would happen now. Most of us have been through this before.

Bob, I'm not the one wishing AA goes out of business. That would be you. Your the one by his own admission would be not be that affected due in part to having a wife who makes more money and has better. Wonder if everyone at AA can say that?

 

[777 fixer]

Please, like you really care about anybody but yourself.

Like I've said before, if AA were to disappear the millions of people they fly would not stay home, other carriers would pick up their slots, their routes, their planes and their people. Pan Am went away, so did EAL and those that remained picked up all those things then and the same would happen now. Most of us have been through this before.

Wow, you make sound almost like a pleasant thing to have happen to you. Ever talk to the ex-Eastern or Eastern people who have been through this? Do you think they are looking forward to it again? Why don't you explain it them in case they don't understand that it really is'nt that big a deal.

 

[xmarlin]

Have we gone off topic here? Just askin...

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Have we gone off topic here? Just askin...

Gee, ya think, just a tad bit?🙂

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Another day of watching tool boxes getting loaded up at AFW. Pretty surreal seeing so many friends leaving. Strange walking thru the hangar so dark and quiet.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Another day of watching tool boxes getting loaded up at AFW. Pretty surreal seeing so many friends leaving. Strange walking thru the hangar so dark and quiet.

Strange is not the right word......more like sad.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[Bob Owens]

Wow, you make sound almost like a pleasant thing to have happen to you. Ever talk to the ex-Eastern or Eastern people who have been through this? Do you think they are looking forward to it again? Why don't you explain it them in case they don't understand that it really is'nt that big a deal.

I've talked to them many times, have you? Most are disgusted at how we roll over here. They dont regret taking a stand at EAL.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Bob,
labor took an enormous stand at EAL but they couldn't overcome the legal and financial realities that they faced. EAL made some bad business decisions early in deregulation such as taking on enormous amounts of debt which made it harder and harder for EA to compete. It ultimately became labor's responsibility to try and turn the situation around in a scheme that rarely works.

Labor cannot be expected to overcome or retain benefits for its members at the expense of bad mgmt, horrid economic circumstances, and/or a legal environment which is stacked against labor.

The problem in the US airline industry is that there have been very few examples of highly unionized airlines operating w/ strong, visionary management, in a strong economy, and with little desire to bust labor using legal tactics.

On that basis, labor has lost in the US airline industry.

Specific to this topic, Alliance did not need to close in order for AA to succeed but that is the path that they unfortunately chose.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
labor took an enormous stand at EAL but they couldn't overcome the legal and financial realities that they faced. EAL made some bad business decisions early in deregulation such as taking on enormous amounts of debt which made it harder and harder for EA to compete. It ultimately became labor's responsibility to try and turn the situation around in a scheme that rarely works.

Labor cannot be expected to overcome or retain benefits for its members at the expense of bad mgmt, horrid economic circumstances, and/or a legal environment which is stacked against labor.

The problem in the US airline industry is that there have been very few examples of highly unionized airlines operating w/ strong, visionary management, in a strong economy, and with little desire to bust labor using legal tactics.

On that basis, labor has lost in the US airline industry.

Specific to this topic, Alliance did not need to close in order for AA to succeed but that is the path that they unfortunately chose.

I never said that Labor should agree to be restrained by unjust laws. If workers did that we never would have gotten anywhere. SHUT IT DOWN is something that labor has to be willing to do, they cant put us all in jail and besides they need us to do the work.

 

[chris perry]

I haven't seen a for sale sign on Horton's get away in England yet? Shared sacrifice never happened...the TWU is responsible.
I also noticed all the Video's have disappeared on You Tube with the Tulsa boys playing pocket pool with Carmen Romano.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/14/uk-american-airlines-house-idUSLNE7BD02M20111214

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Tough day watching friends and coworkers leave afw for the last time