USAIRWAYS Pilots Strike !!!

[A320 Driver]

Strikes are a last resort after all else has failed. This process over our pension is just getting started. It will be quite some time before we have to cross that bridge IMHO. It may come to that, but not until we've exhausted every possible avenue.

A320 Driver

 

[Braveheart]

LADIES & GENTLEMEN:

This bickering within the rank and file is a great instrument of happiness and joy among those 30 Vice Presidents and 1 CEO that view this site on a daily basis. These Union Buster Barbershop Quartet’s continue laughing and are saying “we got them nowâ€￾; read and view how unorganized they are and how they continue to blame each other.

What astonishes me is the feeling that all Unions cannot unite as one against the Crystal City Empire. Seigel should be told plain and simple – you and your staff take concessions or do not talk to any of us anymore. You and your quartet get no pay raises, no perk’s, absolutely nutta until every union employee receives back what they lost also and you take some major concessions also.

Those demands CANNOT be received if you continue to fight among each other. These requests must be worked out with all Union Presidents of US Airways and not the Internationals, but the actual groups getting hosed.

Without unity you will continue to remain divided, the Union Buster Quartet will continue to gain ground and all of you will continue too lose.

UNITED WE STAND – DIVIDED WE FALL

Seigel and AeroMan keep up the good work. Divided we are and we definitely are far from being UNITED.

 

[mrplanes]

No, Dave is attempting to shoot us in the foot.

mr

 

[AOG-N-IT]

I sure hope you guys are just being internet tough men/women. The comparison to Eastern is a very valid one.

I have listened to ALPA members tell every other work group how to act...or how to react ever since this downward spiral started....Now it's gotten real ugly for those whom have been praised for leading the way (According to Dave)

I have no desire to rake anyone through the coals...or the muck for that matter , but I do hope our pilots and the company can find a better method in seeking a resolve than going on strike for Christ sake.

Our pilots have taken the lead in every aspect.....and I think it should be a matter of ethics and professionalism to continue to do so....otherwise you will lower yourselves to the same level as your tormentors (The Company)


Should it come to a strike....You will have achieved exactly what the enemies of our country attempted (Economic Chaos).....and what many of the other carriers would love to see , You will have driven in the final nail in U's coffin.


I hope that a middle ground can be achieved for all our benefit.....and I hope the pilots can regain levels of compensation that will put this to rest.

Striking is a ZERO option for this company!! Negotiate!!!! Rememeber...There is no last word in diplomacy!!

 

[USAirBoyA330]

I have kept quiet until now but I mean come on. This all coming from the same people that tried to "pressure or influence" the outcome of out concession vote? Get real......
The shoe is on the other foot and IT SUCKS. But you know what? SHAME ON YOU ALPA....SHAME SHAME SHAME for not making sure this never could happen again after Eastern-Pan AM and Braniff! Obviously it was not the high on the priority list in the past.
I am only 25 years old and I know better than to put all your eggs in one basket!.....duuuuuh. That's why I have an outside firm handle my funds separately. I certainly would have NEVER depended on USAirways for retirement.
So got no sympathy here. IF your making anywhere near 100k a year and you don't plan ahead and you put all your eggs in one basket then I am sorry but....get over it.

 

[BottomFeeder]

[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 4:33:55 PM USAirBoyA330 wrote:

I am only 25 years old and I know better than to put all your eggs in one basket!.....duuuuuh. That's why I have an outside firm handle my funds separately. I certainly would have NEVER depended on USAirways for retirement.
So got no sympathy here. IF your making anywhere near 100k a year and you don't plan ahead and you put all your eggs in one basket then I am sorry but....get over it.
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[/blockquote]

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Your so far off base.

First. The pension is is just like a savings account. If someone took as much as 1 million dollars out of your savings. Would you be upset? OR " Get Over It"

Second. At 25 you figured out to not "Put your eggs in one basket". Congratulations, Now why are the only one to figure this out? What makes you think that most pilots are not diversify.

Third. Life has a way of throwing you twist. With an attitude like yours, I am sure it going to be interesting. SMART GUY

 

[tug_slug]

[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 12:06:32 PM A320 Driver wrote:

Anybody can come here and call themselves whatever they like. I don't believe for one second this idiot is a pilot for U.

A320 Driver

Accept NO cheap imitations!
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[/blockquote]
A320 Driver thats EXACTLY what I thought when I read his post.

Thank You [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/2.gif']

 

[whaledriver]

It truly is the last straw...I would support the US Airway pilot group 100%. After the valuable pension is robbed, Mgt. will continue to ask for additional givebacks..it will never end. It has now evolved into a high stakes game of 'chicken' between mgt. and the pilot group.

Pilots must now consider all availible tools in order to save your pension!

 

[tug_slug]

[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 4:22:52 PM mrplanes wrote:

No, Dave is attempting to shoot us in the foot.

mr
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[/blockquote]

Then why does my rear end hurt so much?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

[blockquote]
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On 2/6/2003 4:54:58 PM BottomFeeder wrote:

[blockquote]

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On 2/6/2003 4:33:55 PM USAirBoyA330 wrote:


I am only 25 years old and I know better than to put all your eggs in one basket!.....duuuuuh. That's why I have an outside firm handle my funds separately. I certainly would have NEVER depended on USAirways for retirement.

So got no sympathy here. IF your making anywhere near 100k a year and you don't plan ahead and you put all your eggs in one basket then I am sorry but....get over it.

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[/blockquote]


****************************************


Your so far off base.


First. The pension is is just like a savings account. If someone took as much as 1 million dollars out of your savings. Would you be upset? OR " Get Over It"


Second. At 25 you figured out to not "Put your eggs in one basket". Congratulations, Now why are the only one to figure this out? What makes you think that most pilots are not diversify.


Third. Life has a way of throwing you twist. With an attitude like yours, I am sure it going to be interesting. SMART GUY
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[/blockquote]


I'm sorry BottomFeeder, but the 'boy' is right. (AND, again, I say this as someone whose over-arching interest in this subject is that of an already retired pilot.) There is NO question that loosing your defined pension benefit anytime within 10 years of mandatory retirement is horrible... that's why your government created a safety net called the PBGC. But the PBGC doesn't recognize the class differences among labor that ALPA does. (please spare me the oversimplified and inaccurate use of the 'S' word) If the pension plan is like a savings account than the PBGC is like FDIC and your institution went under.

Pension plans are about streams of payments in and out and risk. It's elementary that when you are the beneficiary of a defined BENEFIT plan, that MOST of the risk of managing the streams in and out AND the risk of the accumulated value of the cash falls on the Company... except, for, VERY OBVIOUSLY, the risk that the pension beneficiary (the pilot) assumes that the Company won't go OUT OF BUSINESS.

Gee, for how many years has it been discussed that U's HIGH COSTS might do it in? In fact, those high costs and some other factors DID do U in.

All this talk of fairness is all pretty poor public relations designed to get ALPA a bigger piece of the terribly shrunken pie. The thing is ALPA doesn't care whose pie they eat.

There is no question that ALPA has some very strong arguments that their retirement group is being inadequately treated by the regs of the PBGC, because they don't deal with the mandatory retirement and there is at least a plausible argument that the state of the pilot's retirement is an indirect consequence of tragic incidents against the U.S. as a nation. However, some of the problems are ALPA's own making (namely a rediculous seniority system that rewards the lucky few at the top of airlines that don't go under at several multiples of what they make earlier in their careers.)

I think this situation needs redress, but I think it's going to come from the PBGC raising it's maximums or providing some flexibility in letting U 'up load' it's future contributions to the more senior pilots.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

BF-

You're right, I don't need to be giving anybody any lectures. WIth a little luck, my family will be largely untouched by this horrible situation. I wish everyone the best of luck.

I do hope that U ALPA can find a pot of gold buried somewhere that doesn't have to come out of someother working stiff's retirement. Maybe Bronner wants to contribute?

 

[BottomFeeder]

RowUnderDCA

If your ideas are correct then all of the pension funds need to be terminated. The failure of the company as you describe, in fact did not happen. You seem to forget that the PBGC did not terminate the pension. U did by going to the judge.

Yes, it is a another means of saving for retirement. The short of it is that the company failed to make the payments and rode the market. Now the market and low interest rates have called their lack of commitment. The current U boys were handed this by WOLF. If he would have put the 2 BILLION in to the pensions instead of buying back stock at 50 or so. We would now be on the road to recovery.

Spare me the lecture.

Bottom line management had control and blew it.

 

[AIRMAIL]

[blockquote]
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On 2/5/2003 10:58:15 PM U 737 PILOT wrote:

The line has been drawn and now is the time to take action ! The raping of our pension is the final straw. We must not let the robber barons get away with this final assault on our profession. Better to die on our feet with dignity than on our knees quivering and begging for mercy ! If they terminate our pension......... then WE STRIKE !!! It is as simple as that..... you... ROBBER BARONS !!!
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[/blockquote]
So if you strike then what? You shut U down and the company ceases to exist. The PBGC will then take over your pension and you will have no income coming in. If you continue to work the PBGC will take over your pension but you will have an income to pay bills and live for another day. Let`s think with our brain and not our emotions. I fully agree that this is a terrible thing happening. But either way the PBGC is going to take over the plan. Why kill the airline now. Save the fight for another day when a strike threat would accomplish something.

 

[diogenes]

[blockquote]
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On 2/7/2003 5:57:59 PM BottomFeeder wrote:

RowUnderDCA

If your ideas are correct then all of the pension funds need to be terminated. The failure of the company as you describe, in fact did not happen. You seem to forget that the PBGC did not terminate the pension. U did by going to the judge.

Yes, it is a another means of saving for retirement. The short of it is that the company failed to make the payments and rode the market. Now the market and low interest rates have called their lack of commitment. The current U boys were handed this by WOLF. If he would have put the 2 BILLION in to the pensions instead of buying back stock at 50 or so. We would now be on the road to recovery.

Spare me the lecture.

Bottom line management had control and blew it.
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[/blockquote]
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Ohhh, let me volunteer my plan!

Ooops, sorry, they got it in 1994.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/15.gif']

 

[autofixer]

AIRMAIL, Most of the U pilots do not have time to fight another day. There is that age 60 thing and 48% of the pilot group is over 50. Therefore, the fight must be here and now, if it is to be at all.