USair denies AA pilots jumpseat...

[AirwAr]

It's highly moronic for pilots to fight each other on the line, and is not indicative of the majority of the pilots I come across. 
 
But on the other hand, the flight crews have no problem denying jumpseat privileges to the rest of the airline employees who are just trying to get someplace, there are plenty of American employees who commute, because of layoffs. 
 
What is really disheartening is the fact that pilots from OTHER AIRLINES get to ride on OUR AIRLINE for free, in the cockpit, while we will be sitting at the gate watching the plane push back.  Also American has arranged for flight crews from other airlines the right to walk up and get a seat if one is open, for free, other flightcrews can do it on our airline and AA flightcrews can do it theirs. another benefit other employees don't have. So in the end who gives a f*** a pilot got denied a jumpseat. Pilots aren't the only airline employees who non-rev.  

 
I'm not a pilot or FA and I'm completely fine with leaving this benefit to those work groups.  Don't get me wrong..being able to do that would be pretty nice, however, different work groups have different advantages.
 
Not only this...but it seems that the career progression of pilots & FA's lends itself for the need to be very mobile.  I know, know...being displaced, layoffs, etc...but you have to draw the line somewhere...and I am personally OK with where it's drawn

 

[Mach85ER]

From the pilot end, I support the Captain having the right to accept any company employee on the jumpseat with a couple of conditions:

1. The employee is vetted and has at least 5 years of service. Maybe a jumpseat approval card. Any discipline and work problems, card is removed immediately for some time.


2. Priority is AA pilots, then AE pilots followed by other airline pilots, then other work groups. Our agreements with other carriers need to be maintained. The jumpseat agreements come from a long history of professional courtesy amongst other airlines. They are not non-rev seats to be doled out by the company, the pilots at AA paid for the right for the jumpseats in Section 6 negotiations. None of this "I was in line first or I have more company seniority."

3. No Rule 32 claims will be accepted unless one pilot directly testifies to the offense. Claims of safety violations? Touchy subject, but we seriously don't need to be answering charges by some clueless Private Pilots. There is an FA that did decades of damage by levying charges against multiple pilots. The mess was probably quite large and is probably why the Flight Dept didn't want to deal with the hassle and nixed any expansion of the jumpseat. (edited) Clarify that demials can't be for obvious discrimination reasons.

4. The Captain gets final approval, end of story. "It's my employee right to ride!". Nope, sorry. Even if last flight out, the Captain says no, no ride, no repercussions.

 

[bigjets]

 
I'm not a pilot or FA and I'm completely fine with leaving this benefit to those work groups.  Don't get me wrong..being able to do that would be pretty nice, however, different work groups have different advantages.
 
Not only this...but it seems that the career progression of pilots & FA's lends itself for the need to be very mobile.  I know, know...being displaced, layoffs, etc...but you have to draw the line somewhere...and I am personally OK with where it's drawn

 
 
I understand your point, but I'm jealous, and I wish all employees were treated as well as the flight crew. 

 

[bigjets]

From the pilot end, I support the Captain having the right to accept any company employee on the jumpseat with a couple of conditions:

1. The employee is vetted and has at least 5 years of service. Maybe a jumpseat approval card. Any discipline and work problems, card is removed immediately for some time.


2. Priority is AA pilots, then AE pilots followed by other airline pilots, then other work groups. Our agreements with other carriers need to be maintained. The jumpseat agreements come from a long history of professional courtesy amongst other airlines. They are not non-rev seats to be doled out by the company, the pilots at AA paid for the right for the jumpseats in Section 6 negotiations. None of this "I was in line first or I have more company seniority."

3. No Rule 32 claims will be accepted unless one pilot directly testifies to the offense. Claims of safety violations? Touchy subject, but we seriously don't need to be answering charges by some clueless Private Pilots. There is an FA that did decades of damage by levying charges against multiple pilots. The mess was probably quite large and is probably why the Flight Dept didn't want to deal with the hassle and nixed any expansion of the jumpseat. (edited) Clarify that demials can't be for obvious discrimination reasons.

4. The Captain gets final approval, end of story. "It's my employee right to ride!". Nope, sorry. Even if last flight out, the Captain says no, no ride, no repercussions.

 
 I see the pilots on a daily basis, ask the agents if they need more time to get all the non-revs on, which I think goes along with being a good fellow employee, and I'm sure every employee appreciates that.    Thank you. 

 

[lineguy43]

Point made but the AMT's at AA had a committee to explore the possibility of AMT's getting F/D jump seat privileges for personal travel. I remember speaking to one of the guys in that committee during the negotiations. The meetings consisted of the Company, the FAA, the flight department and the TWU. The FAA had no objections, so it was left up to the company to make policy. Unfortunately the flight department objected so the company honored their decision and we were locked out of the flight deck jump seat. No FAA or TSA restrictions, just company and flight said no.
Alaska, Southwest and JetBlue allow AMT's to jump seat in the flight deck on their respective carriers. Like a earlier poster wrote it is sad when a pilot from another airline walks up on a full flight and gets F/D jump seat for free and employees of that airline have to sit and watch the aircraft push back without them on it. That is a typical I Got Mine attitude.
 
 
 

 

[lineguy43]

 

Point made but the AMT's at AA had a committee to explore the possibility of AMT's getting F/D jump seat privileges for personal travel. I remember speaking to one of the guys in that committee during the negotiations. The meetings consisted of the Company, the FAA, the flight department and the TWU. The FAA had no objections, so it was left up to the company to make policy. Unfortunately the flight department objected so the company honored their decision and we were locked out of the flight deck jump seat. No FAA or TSA restrictions, just company and flight said no.
Alaska, Southwest and JetBlue allow AMT's to jump seat in the flight deck on their respective carriers. Like a earlier poster wrote it is sad when a pilot from another airline walks up on a full flight and gets F/D jump seat for free and employees of that airline have to sit and watch the aircraft push back without them on it. That is a typical I Got Mine attitude.
 
 
 

 
 
You can bet that the company has no problem putting an AMT in the cockpit jumpseat if there is an aircraft down in the field and there are no seats on the aircraft to get a mechanic there to fix it. That is why I flat out refused to ride the F/D jumpseat on prinicple when I worked for NWA when they tried to send me on a road trip I made them kick a paying pax off the a/c. If I am not qualified and worthy to ride the jumpseat for personal travel then I am not qualified any other time either. Working in Maintenance Control has given me a unique prospective to how good the dispatchers have it. For a minimal 5 week education investment and they have all the perks the pilots have when it comes to that seat even if it is at a lower priority. Makes me wish I had become a dispatcher instead I would be making better money have more perks and not have spent close to 2 yrs getting an A@P only to be treated like a liability by the company instead of an asset.

 

[Mach85ER]

You should have been positive space in a confirmed seat.
 
Most jumpseats are pretty uncomfortable. AA pilots have confirmed positive space seats in back when DH to a another flight or to training. We may volunteer to give up the seat. I'll do it depending on aircraft. B737 s%cks for me unless it's a short flight. I will also only do it for non-revs (many times), not for revenue pax unless some extenuating circumstance.
 
I haven't seen a dispatcher in years.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Unfortunately the flight department objected so the company honored their decision and we were locked out of the flight deck jump seat. No FAA or TSA restrictions, just company and flight said no.
 

 
I totally disagree with keeping AMTs out of the cockpit jumpseat.  They should be allowed to ride with respect to CASS approval.
 
But, given the preceived attitude of the APA pilots, it does not surprise me.  I am not sure if the IAM at LCC ever even formally asked to go through the vetting process to get their licensed mechanics access to ride the cockpit jumpseat.  Never heard of it anyway.  My guess is that they would have been given a different answer if it were left up to the LCC pilots (and not the company) to decide.

 

[Mach85ER]

But, given the preceived attitude of the APA pilots, it does not surprise me.
 

 
 
Where do you come up with this crap NYC? What's next, tired old Sky Nazi jokes and legends of AA guys flying the extensive Reno and TWA system today?
 
We didn't even have jumpseat agreements until we paid for them in the 1991 contract. Delta used to have closed JS also.
 
The Flight Department is the one who killed the subject of the discussion. Do you have the slightest idea what kind of people were running Flight when that happened? They couldn't give two sheets what APA or the pilots thought when they made that decison. They ignored us for a thousand other problems and this was way down the Xmas wish list.
 
Most guys feel like I do, and I am flying with them day by day and they are not having their viagra moments like a few serial posters on chatboards. Have you noticed a trend as to who is whining and starting the name calling on every board out there on the LCC/AA subject? Not AA guys.
 
Get a grip.

 

[Mach85ER]

By the way, do AMT's ride in the LCC jumpseats?

 

[PullUp]

 
 
I don't know who is feeding you some bull, but Jetblue and SWA allow their employees jumpseat privileges. This isn't Foxnews or MSNBC lets stay away from the rhetoric please.  
 

I think you are referring to the flight attendant jumpseats. You must have the correct security clearance to ride 'up front', whereas F/A jumpseats are a matter of company policy and contractural language.
Cheers.

 

[PullUp]

By the way, do AMT's ride in the LCC jumpseats?

Only when required during a maintenance check flight (no pax aboard). On normal line flights, no.

 

[IORFA]

You might want to look at the FA contract again. It doesnt say "only" they can fly in the cabin jumpseat, it just says they can fly in the cabin jumpseat.

It says that APFA owns the jump seat and decides who sits in it. Nice try.

 

[Topcat187]

It says that APFA owns the jump seat and decides who sits in it. Nice try.

I am not wrong. Tell me what part of the CBA says they own the jumpseat? It simply says that AA f/a`s may use the seat for personal travel. Get your facts together before you post.

 

[IORFA]

It's not my fault your friend misinformed you. If you were really a F/A, you could find it yourself. Maybe you should call APFA. If they choose to tell a non member the information, then good. Otherwise, your friend will have to let you look at the contract. Either way, you are wrong. I don't have time to disprove jibberish.