You mean the upgrade created by the airplane and routes stolen* from mainline?
*BTW nothing was "stolen". Everything was negotiated and agreed to by all parties.
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- Thread starter chichi
- Start date
You mean the upgrade created by the airplane and routes stolen* from mainline?
*BTW nothing was "stolen". Everything was negotiated and agreed to by all parties.
I know, it ws a huge mistake.
What SHOULD have happened was that NO seats (in jets) should ever have been given to PSA, rather that flying be kept in-house and on the mainline senority list.
Then allow the subsidiary pilots to come on as Mainline Newhires if those positions were bypassed by the furloughed mainline pilots (ala E-170).
No confusion, no BS, no skewed expectations. Just the way it is supposed to be... Hire on at the bottom. Start in the right seat, and stay there til your (mainline) senority number allows otherwise.
The fact that you would be out of a job right now, with all of the DO-328 turboprops parked means squat. The self-centered and spoiled attitude you have shows why you just don't "get" how lucky you actually are to have been given the flying you now have.
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
Yeah but those are just facts. Tell us something important.
I just got called for a recall class in May.
If I were to take it, given the current contract and projected retirements (without age 65) it will be ten (10) years until I get back to the pay and seniority I was furloughed from 5 years ago.
The only thing I expect from ALPA is my monthly magazine. Recognize the credit that ALPA deserves and you won't be disappointed.
CV580ETOPS
Senior
- Nov 9, 2006
- 311
- 81
First off,I am not a PSA pilot,either the old one from days gone by ,or the "Express" carrier that goes by the same name today.My aviation "career",if you want to call it that, consisted of pumping gas into Allegheny Airlines CV580's DC9's etc while in high school many years ago when dinosaurs roamed the earth,and that experience alone cured me of any desire to persue any career in the airline industry,flying or otherwise. Like I said in a previous post I just ain't that dumb enough to put up with all the "Bravo Sierra" you guys and gals deal with on a daily basis especially given the chump change pay rates you folks are earning today. But based on my observations reading this webboard and talking with friends of mine who fly for the 2 airlines involved,your proposal seems like it would have made alot of sense.It's just a shame it never advanced beyond the webboard stage.
Sorry for the thread creep, but.... your DOH? They've mailed out recall letters now to 7/5/99 evidently.
Assumption corrected, you are not PSA.
Point still stands.
The PSA pilots have gained far more in the past five years than either of the other two regional subsidiaries (one of which no longer exists), as a direct result of agreeing to the JFJ program, flawed as it might be.
Their fleet is DOUBLE the size of the previous turboprop fleet, so NOT ONE of the PSA pilots has EVER been "held back" from either a transition to CRJ Captain spot, or allowed to upgrade that would have anyways. Instead, with the parking of the DO-328 fleet, chances are real good that PSA, much like ALG would not even exist today... Meaning NO jobs for anyone there.
What are they crying about anyways... ? 50 and 70 seat jets provide better pay, better job security, and better career possibilities over the DO-328 props that were scheduled to be parked. What EXACTLY is sooooooooo bad about the situation they have had to "endure"...?
IF anything, each and every PSA pilot should THANK every mainline pilot, JFJ or otherwise, that they meet for the opportunity given to them.
The PSA pilots have no cause to complain, so unless they can come up with real one, I sure don't want to hear about their so called "problems" anymore...
Look out!! Incoming!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea, you could be at PDT flying around 1980's Technology Turbo Props!!
However Rico, I do believe there are a bunch of things going on at PSA that there pilots have a legit reason to be pissed! I think they were a much happier pilot group during the D-328 days! And many of them would tell you that if they would have known the crap they would have had to deal with getting those shiney jets, well.... Many of them would rather have stayed with the 328's and just rolled the dice!!
Yea, you could be at PDT flying around 1980's Technology Turbo Props!!
However Rico, I do believe there are a bunch of things going on at PSA that there pilots have a legit reason to be pissed! I think they were a much happier pilot group during the D-328 days! And many of them would tell you that if they would have known the crap they would have had to deal with getting those shiney jets, well.... Many of them would rather have stayed with the 328's and just rolled the dice!!
yeah right,
THAT's an easy thing to say as they sit in the left seat of a new jet, how they "would" have/"should" have taken a chance...
Pu-lease. They took advantage of the situation, not once, but twice, and now they have the luxury to sit back and claim that they would have done things differently "if they had only known"
I'm betting most PDT pilots would love to have thier "problems"...
"Happy" is a relative thing. There is not one bit of a downside that occurred for the PSA pilot group, as a result of the Jets for Jobs Program. If they are unhappy because of whatever else, the LAST thing they should ever blame is JFJ, or the pilots that came with it.
Furloughedagain
Senior
PSA was a very young, immature pilot group in early 2002. They, as a whole, had very limited experience within the industry and it showed in their sophomoric behavior in the terminals and in the aircraft.
(Some of them were likely the poster-children for the spiked-hair, IPOD, backpack crowd)
They were extremely belligerent towards mainline pilots -- so much so that they had a derogatory nickname for them; "Dad".
I suspect that with experience comes maturity. Shiny-jet syndrome brought them a fleet of RJs and now that some of the novelty has worn off they seek compensation and workrules that are more appropriate for the size aircraft they fly.
(Some of them were likely the poster-children for the spiked-hair, IPOD, backpack crowd)
They were extremely belligerent towards mainline pilots -- so much so that they had a derogatory nickname for them; "Dad".
I suspect that with experience comes maturity. Shiny-jet syndrome brought them a fleet of RJs and now that some of the novelty has worn off they seek compensation and workrules that are more appropriate for the size aircraft they fly.
IMO It is more of a matter of their pilots having already gained enough, that what was offered with the CRJ-900's meant little to them. It was not a matter of backbone, rather IMO they just did not have the same need to bend over as they had before.
Nebucanezzar
Member
- Jul 25, 2006
- 73
- 1
Furloughed,
I think you are mistaken in your assessment that "Dad" is a derogatory term. It has become part of the lexicon amongst regional "scum" like us and I can assure you its genesis is more along the lines of a son seeking leadership from the elder or "Dad" as it were. The majority of us have the utmost respect for them.
I think you are mistaken in your assessment that "Dad" is a derogatory term. It has become part of the lexicon amongst regional "scum" like us and I can assure you its genesis is more along the lines of a son seeking leadership from the elder or "Dad" as it were. The majority of us have the utmost respect for them.
Furloughedagain
Senior
Nebucanezzer,
You can't BS a BSer my friend. I had the misfortune of working for PSA for a brief time after being furloughed from Airways (pre-J4J) and the term "Dad" was most definitely NOT used as a term of endearment.
You can't BS a BSer my friend. I had the misfortune of working for PSA for a brief time after being furloughed from Airways (pre-J4J) and the term "Dad" was most definitely NOT used as a term of endearment.
I heard just the opposite. First, there still is no flow though agreement in place. Second, U management has no interest in one at this time (mainly because of the third reason). Third, PSA & PDT management have no interest in flow through at this time because they are having enough problems with staffing as it is. They can not afford to let a single pilot go anywhere. The exception of course is they don't have a choice if someone just quits and goes to another airline(Rjet for example), they can't control that, but they can control a loss of pilots because of flow through. PSA won't even release the J4J pilots who have been recalled, let alone open the gates for a flow through. The CEL pilots who think they are getting that "Congratulations, you have been awarded an E190 postition in PHL" letter, in the near future are going to be waiting awhile IMHO. And that's IF they can hammer out an agreement for a flow through.
Well I kinda wondered about that. The regionals as a whole are having a very hard time staffing their airplanes. I'd be surprised if LCC management would want to exacerbate any problems they may be having by taking qualified pilots from their WO airlines. However, perhaps they're finally realizing it's a zero sum game out there. They can either take proven employees and then replace them at the lower level or they can hire from other sources to the upper level and then have to replace the lower level person who leaves anyway for some other job that the other (new mainline) guy didn't go to.
