US Hubs Are Sub Par?

[Travelpro72]

I believe CLT does rely on the financial business. Or should I say US does. It is in an area that doesn't compete with any other US hub. I just wonder what US plans to do do stay viable.

 

[Art at ISP]

Travelpro,

With all due respect, I think you have a better idea than they do at the moment......

 

[CGAft]

City Population (referncing the US Census Bureau)

18 Memphis Tennessee 674,028
19 Charlotte North Carolina 671,588

33 Atlanta Georgia 519,145

What you must remember when comparing the populations of these 2 cities is that the Census numbers are black and white. What many people dont realize is the difference in square mileage of the city limits. CLT city limits take up about 2/3 of Mecklenburg County. ATL city limits are much smaller. One can live 15-20 miles from Uptown and still be within city limits. If you look at ATL metro vs CLT metro theres no comparison. And no I dont have exact numbers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You don't have to. Larry is telling you that CO gained "zero market share".

The thing about market share is that airlines, even smaller ones like US & CO, deal with such big numbers that a change of 10,000 passengers a month won't move the market share needle enough to be noticeable. If it's FF's moving, the change in the bottom line is bigger than the change in market share. Using the BTS' data, CO ended 2008 with their highest percentage of the top 10 carrier's traffic while US ended 2008 with one of their lowest percentages of the top 10 airlines traffic. Even there, you're looking at hundredths or thousandths of a percent difference.

The other thing is that LK said that the lack of fees didn't increase their market share. I don't think the fees are what drove FF's away as much as it was the soft product - service - and dropping the 500 mile minimum and bonuses for a while in 2008. In 2007 it was reliability and the res migration.

Jim

 

[jimcfs]

I literally RAN to the connecting gate, taking every bit of 14 minutes....schedule minus 1. There were people at the counter, and an agent there was shaking her head no--so I expected the worst. Instead, I went to the boarding scanner, and the agent asked if I was Art, to which i said yes, and he said, "we were waiting for you". I do not imagine the experience would have been similar on US.

...at least not in the current version of US. When I was doing most of my major travel in the mid 90s, I can remember many a Sunday night in PIT or CLT where just that situation had happened to me, often with the same results as Art experienced on CO.

It's called working with your op's and not against them. In principle, it's logical and to the customer, it makes a world of difference. Perhaps Tempe needs a lesson in that common sense? It's not available in spreadsheet form, however.

 

[2clippedwings]

I think it's partly negotiations posturing.

 

[vantheman63]

The thing about market share is that airlines, even smaller ones like US & CO, deal with such big numbers that a change of 10,000 passengers a month won't move the market share needle enough to be noticeable. If it's FF's moving, the change in the bottom line is bigger than the change in market share. Using the BTS' data, CO ended 2008 with their highest percentage of the top 10 carrier's traffic while US ended 2008 with one of their lowest percentages of the top 10 airlines traffic. Even there, you're looking at hundredths or thousandths of a percent difference.

The other thing is that LK said that the lack of fees didn't increase their market share. I don't think the fees are what drove FF's away as much as it was the soft product - service - and dropping the 500 mile minimum and bonuses for a while in 2008. In 2007 it was reliability and the res migration.

Jim

I was gong to post something similar...and then I got busy trying to get to PVD to head off to MAN tonight.

I agree and think you are spot on, 1,000% correct Captain.

Perhaps the masses, otherwise referred to as "kettles," don't migrate from one seat to the other. However, VFFers and High Yield travelers do move and do look for value. And the idea that elites may not have left US in droves doesn't make much sense to me as I don't personally know more than a couple that have stayed. And maybe someday I'll be back?

But I would bet CO tracks not just market share, but also "elite" traffic. I'm certain they don't split that out or delineate it to the public...but those would be some interesting matrices.

Again, I'd not be surprised if Mr. Parker is right...for how he's looking at the whole issue. But where I promise anyone he's wrong, is how he's working through that issue and how he's communicating to his most valuable asset, his employees...and investors.

Do people like me really, at the heart of the matter, care? No. I really don't. Being a PVD traveler, I'm using someone's hub more often than not....even though lately, I'm using WN to all points Florida, many of which, I can get to non-stop.

And along the way...I found I REALLY prefer the product WN offers...

 

[aredeeyou22]

I was gong to post something similar...and then I got busy trying to get to PVD to head off to MAN tonight.

I agree and think you are spot on, 1,000% correct Captain.

Perhaps the masses, otherwise referred to as "kettles," don't migrate from one seat to the other. However, VFFers and High Yield travelers do move and do look for value.And the idea that elites may not have left US in droves doesn't make much sense to me as I don't personally know more than a couple that have stayed.

I'm confused. You know all the elites? And you only know of a "couple" that have stayed? How do you track this information, if I may ask? If this is true, and the VFF's pay such a revenue premium, then I just don't get why CO's premium revenue (BF) is falling off a cliff?

And maybe someday I'll be back?

We very much hope so! We hope you all come back, but we also realize the obstacles, and why you left.......

But I would bet CO tracks not just market share, but also "elite" traffic. I'm certain they don't split that out or delineate it to the public...but those would be some interesting matrices.

True, but one would think that LK would've said something like, " While CO is pleased to have gained many, many elites from other airlines over their "fee happiness", we still must look for ways to align our costs with the reality of the current economic environment"..... ???

Again, I'd not be surprised if Mr. Parker is right...for how he's looking at the whole issue.

What? :blink: :blink:

But where I promise anyone he's wrong, is how he's working through that issue and how he's communicating to his most valuable asset, his employees...and investors.

He communicates to us often. While I am not happy with what I hear, I try to understand and respect what he says (with a grain o' salt, of course..) While I understand things have not been pretty in this merger, one cannot deny the fact that this airline cannot generate the revenue that AA/DL/UA can.. Argue if u want, but US is the underdog, always was, and had to implement these harsh fees before anyone else.

Do people like me really, at the heart of the matter, care? No. I really don't.

Bull. You care. About us. Or you wouldn't waste your time on here. And we, the employees, thank you for that....

Being a PVD traveler, I'm using someone's hub more often than not....even though lately, I'm using WN to all points Florida, many of which, I can get to non-stop.

Hope it's our hubs once in awhile!

And along the way...I found I REALLY prefer the product WN offers...

They have a great product, and great people. Period.

 

[BoeingBoy]

then I just don't get why CO's premium revenue (BF) is falling off a cliff?

It's really not that difficult to get - all the network carrier's premium traffic is down markedly. What I don't get is why anyone would expect that CO would be immune to the effects of the current economic problems.

Jim

 

[aredeeyou22]

It's really not that difficult to get - all the network carrier's premium traffic is down markedly. What I don't get is why anyone would expect that CO would be immune to the effects of the current economic problems.

Jim

I get it, just shocked that it is down so much at CO, seeing as they have all but a couple of our elites now, and most of them pay the premium fares....

 

[FWAAA]

Premium revenue has been falling off a cliff at all airlines offering premium seating ever since thousands of bankers were sacked in London and New York last fall. The other day, AA announced a unit revenue drop of over 10% for the first quarter. Same thing at BA and CX and SQ.

I'm guessing that airline employees feel a lot more pain before things get better.

 

[SS255]

It's really not that difficult to get - all the network carrier's premium traffic is down markedly. What I don't get is why anyone would expect that CO would be immune to the effects of the current economic problems.

Jim

CO is definitely not immune. In fact, it would not surprise me if CO's premium revenue is down by the highest percentage relative to its competitors, because their F cabins tend to be filled with paid F customers.

People are traveling less, and those who are traveling are traveling in cheaper fare classes. That loss of revenue will spread itself out across all carriers, no matter where their hubs are located.

 

[SS255]

I don’t disagree that US’s hubs are at a disadvantage, O&D-wise, but from the perspective of the connecting passenger, this can really be a positive, as it allows us to bypass dense metropolises in favor of a more relaxed connecting experience.

I am certainly no fan of EWR and ORD. I would much prefer to connect in CLT, but in the past couple of years US has really made a mess of CLT. The reliability factor has gone down the tubes, despite what the on-time performance numbers say. My last flight through CLT was so horrific due to ATC issues that I am reluctant to ever set foot in CLT again unless it is my final destination. This was not a fluke…..merely a culmination of what I have perceived to be the gradual over-scheduling of CLT without the resources to handle the flow of traffic.

There is certainly a place in the commercial aviation world for good, reliable connecting hubs in low-congestion airspace. US should concentrate on turning their hubs’ geographical locations as a positive instead of a negative.

 

[US1YFARE]

Last week I had a connection in IAH...admittedly short at 48 minutes scheduled. Our inbound was held up by ATC and we held for a while, and eventually got to the gate about 35 minutes late, leaving me approximately 12 minutes to get from the first flight to the second. Now this was IAH, where NOTHING is really close--so as close as C-24 SOUNDS to C-29, they are really just about on the opposite ends of the airport.

I literally RAN to the connecting gate, taking every bit of 14 minutes....schedule minus 1. There were people at the counter, and an agent there was shaking her head no--so I expected the worst. Instead, I went to the boarding scanner, and the agent asked if I was Art, to which i said yes, and he said, "we were waiting for you". I do not imagine the experience would have been similar on US.

That has happened to me, too...and, I got an email saying I was protected in F on the next flight and they still waited for me. And then when I got to my seat, the FA asked what I wanted for a predeparture drink even though I was the very last person on the plane and they were waiting for me before leaving. I declined the drink, but it was a nice gesture. US never ever treated me like that. US closed the door on me 2 times with the plane sitting at the jetway.

 

[SS255]

Premium revenue has been falling off a cliff at all airlines offering premium seating ever since thousands of bankers were sacked in London and New York last fall. The other day, AA announced a unit revenue drop of over 10% for the first quarter. Same thing at BA and CX and SQ.

I'm guessing that airline employees feel a lot more pain before things get better.

Alot of Hollywood's premium traffic has declined, as well. The studios have cracked down hard on employee travel. Employees are not only traveling less, but when they do travel, it's in coach now. This has got to be killing AA. The LAX-JFK route is one of their bread-and-butter routes, and now even AA's lowest level elites can clear the upgrade (using their upgrade instruments) at peak travel times. This was absolutely unheard of a few months ago.

The SAG negotiations have stalled, and it will be interesting to see what travel perks make it into the new SAG contract, if an agreement is ever reached. 🙄