US Airways Operations at JFK

[Hope777]

In 1984 the Port Instituted the 1500 mile Rule because of Over Crowding. In 1984, EWR was so much smaller with No International Service, PE soon Followed with LGW service. in todays World, Repealing the Rule would have minimal effect on EWR or JFK for that matter. The increased service at EWR is a Direct result of the Peoples Express and Piedmont war. PE is still alive today in CO (thanks to Gordon whom got booted by the Good Ole Boys Of USAir) and PI is all but gone thanks to a Sweetheart Deal between CO and U over the LGA Terminal. LGA/037 is correct that the rule started to Build up EWR and ease the over crowding in LGA.

 

[ringmaruf]

What "greater" mainline presence are we talking about here? It would be nice to see LGA-MCO,TPA,PBI,SRQ,RSW service come back, but i dont think the yields are there for that.

I can't imagine they'll get back into the LGA-Florida market.

But they certainly should be able to run some mainline again on markets like LGA-IND/CMH/RDU/RIC/GSO.

Where they'll find the mainline planes for it, that's another matter. But it's pathetic that US is the same size as AA and DL at LGA, when US has almost twice as many slots as the other two airlines do. US should be dominant at LGA, not quite as much as they are at DCA, but close.

 

[LGA / 037]

But they certainly should be able to run some mainline again on markets like LGA-IND/CMH/RDU/RIC/GSO.


Its all about the yield. We used to fly all those routes with D39's 733's ,M80's and of course the F100. We made more money on a half full flight to CMH then an oversold flight to MCO ! Now in this new day & age of change , we make more money operationally with RJ's then a 120 seat jet . The only problem is the Port wants US to pump out numbers in volume no matter what fare customers are paying.

 

[Art at ISP]

I don't get how they "make money" with the lawn darts and barbie jets when the 50 seaters have a CASM more than double the main liners. Do the difference in crew salaries make THAT much of a difference?

 

[FCYTravis]

Do the difference in crew salaries make THAT much of a difference?

Have you seen the salaries that small jet provider pilots are making? :down:

 

[LGA / 037]

I don't get how they "make money" with the lawn darts and barbie jets when the 50 seaters have a CASM more than double the main liners. Do the difference in crew salaries make THAT much of a difference?

Seems to make alot if not ALL the difference. A Mainline pilot LGA based told me that when the 190's finally get here in November, the pay difference will be around $30,000.00 a year from the Airbus ! Thats a big difference, butI have not been able to confirm if it is factual.

 

[Hope777]

That would not be one Airbus Captain we have not heard from in a while, would it? He knew all, NOT !

 

[LGA / 037]

That would not be one Airbus Captain we have not heard from in a while, would it? He knew all, NOT !

No, it was another poor commuter tryin to get back to CLT.

 

[ringmaruf]

But they certainly should be able to run some mainline again on markets like LGA-IND/CMH/RDU/RIC/GSO.
Its all about the yield. We used to fly all those routes with D39's 733's ,M80's and of course the F100. We made more money on a half full flight to CMH then an oversold flight to MCO ! Now in this new day & age of change , we make more money operationally with RJ's then a 120 seat jet . The only problem is the Port wants US to pump out numbers in volume no matter what fare customers are paying.

I'm of course not suggesting that US fly all mainline on the routes I mentioned, it'd be a mix of mainline and Express. (And I consider the EMB-190 to be mainline for these purposes. Well, all purposes, in fact.)

But they should be able to take a route like LGA-IND and go from 7x ERJ to 3x E90 + 2x ERJ. Take LGA-CMH from 6x ERJ/CRJ to 2x E90 + 3x ERJ. LGA-RIC from 8x ERJ to 2x 319 + 2x E90 + 2x ERJ. And so on.

This does two things. It frees up RJs to be used in other markets currently receiving props, so you can switch a market like, say, LGA-ORF from 2x CRJ + 3x DH8 + 4x SF3 to maybe 4x CRJ + 3x DH8. (That, in turn, frees up props that can be used probably best to add markets at the non-slot restricted airports at CLT/PHL/PIT/BOS.)

And, more importantly, this all frees up slots so that you can (re-)enter markets like LGA-MCI/BNA/AVL/YUL/TYS. Basically, it's the same idea as what they've done with DCA in the last year and a half.

Seems to make alot if not ALL the difference. A Mainline pilot LGA based told me that when the 190's finally get here in November, the pay difference will be around $30,000.00 a year from the Airbus ! Thats a big difference, butI have not been able to confirm if it is factual.

Well, A32X/B737 captains max out at $125/hour. EMB-190 captains max out at $95/hour. So $30/hour x 80 hours/month x 12 months = $28,800.

 

[vc10]

Actually, it had that refurbishment sometime in the recent past and actually looks pretty good inside these days, considering it's a 70s building and so is, in some ways, fundamentally screwed up (the interior configuration has never made a lot of sense to me).

US/HP operates from Terminal 7 at JFK, which also houses UA and BA. It was built in 1970 and is in dire need of refurbishment.

Other than feeders from CLT/DCA/PHL, I don't see the need for SJU-that market is oversaturated from JFK.

Just my 2 cents though.

Now if one would want to get creative, how about SJU or other Caribbean service from ISP??? For other islands you'd have to clear customs there as ISP has no customs, but perhaps that would give Greyhound Air some needed competition....

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well, A32X/B737 captains max out at $125/hour. EMB-190 captains max out at $95/hour. So $30/hour x 80 hours/month x 12 months = $28,800.

For mainline 737/319 captains, a move to the 190 would be pretty expensive - about $30K a year for a full block. Of course, there's those bottom reserves getting guarantee for whom the pay cut would be a lot less and quality of life a lot better.

For 737/319 F/O's that could get Capt on the 190, it'd be a raise in hourly rate. Throw in the possibility of getting off reserve & holding a block on the 190, and it could be an attractive proposition.

As Rico said somewhere, the 190 F/O jobs will most likely go to recalled pilots.

Jim

 

[RowUnderDCA]

And, more importantly, this all frees up slots so that you can (re-)enter markets like LGA-MCI/BNA/AVL/YUL/TYS. Basically, it's the same idea as what they've done with DCA in the last year and a half.

I think that LGA and BOS were supposed to get the "DCA-re-do" but were put on hold for lack of equipment. Also, I think this strategy was a Siegel move.

 

[ringmaruf]

I think that LGA and BOS were supposed to get the "DCA-re-do" but were put on hold for lack of equipment. Also, I think this strategy was a Siegel move.

LGA, yes, but as you said there were no planes. Then the talk was that PIT would shrink some more and use those planes for LGA, but that never happened. With the -190's, though, it should be possible. And as I've said, they have almost twice as many slots at LGA as AA or DL, so there's no reason why they shouldn't dominate. (At DCA, they've got over 3x as many slots as AA or DL.) And I'm not sure if you mean to say that this is a bad idea by calling it a Siegel move; I think this is one area where Siegel was dead right.

BOS, no, Siegel didn't plan on expanding there, he was happy with being #3, though God only knows why. (Though US certainly should expand at BOS--they've had over 200 flights there before and were by far the largest carrier. And it's a bit funny--AA and DL have been shrinking at BOS even faster than US, so US is now #1 in seats and #2 in pax, without even trying.) But as BOS isn't slot restricted, US doesn't have an inherent advantage that it can fall back on like it does at LGA. So if they consider to just sit on their behinds and stagnate, someone else will snap up the opportunities that are US's for the taking. And to think that for several years, US had by far the nicest terminal at BOS; now DL's got an even nicer one. US is just lucky that DL hasn't been using it to expand.

Since US has a far bigger advantage at DCA than LGA/BOS, I don't think US will be able to reenter the LGA/BOS-Florida markets, or to fly from LGA/BOS to other airlines hubs, with maybe one or two exceptions. But that still leaves dozens of markets for the taking. I mentioned some of the LGA markets above. Similarly, US should (re-)enter BOS-RDU/GSO/CHS/BNA/MCI/CMH and so on, not to mention (re-)entering the BOS transatlantic market, which is the one place that AA is expanding at BOS. The only good thing they've done at BOS in recent years is the Caribbean expansion, but even that's not as big this year as it was last year due to the lack of planes.

Of course, I don't think Tempe will be expanding at LGA and certainly not at BOS, so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[LCC_#1]

A few years back I swore there was a plan to knock down the old TWA hanger at LGA and build and expansion from the US terminal. This addition was going to house all the express operations for US out of LGA.
I would love to see mainline get back some of the gates that Express currently uses.
What "greater" mainline presence are we talking about here? It would be nice to see LGA-MCO,TPA,PBI,SRQ,RSW service come back, but i dont think the yields are there for that.

You are 100% correct but Chapter 22 probably squashed that.

 

[Hope777]

Well JetBlue is adding BOS-PHX service in May.