Point To Point Wish List

[usairrwe]

Good, well thought out post B7E7....

I have always thought that we should do a "Texas Shuttle" simliar to the old Piedmonts "Flordia Shuttle"... at that time I advocated going after AA, but now Southwest and AA with one swift move makes its better....of course my opinion only... and since its my opinion i will further add that I would like to see non-stops from DCA (since that is where I work) to other citites as well.....

ATL (to go after DL)
MEM (to go after NW)
DTW (to go after NW)
DFW and ORD (to go after AA and DL)
better and more reliable service to MCI

would love to see service nonstop to SAT/ABQ/AUS/and even MIA

 

[funguy2]

Putting US Airways 16cent CASM RJ's against 6.5 cent CASM Southwest 737's is financial suicide. Either in Texas or Florida. Or California for that matter. US Airways would have cost almost 3x higher than Southwest and would not be able to charge more than Southwest. In fact, they would probably have to charge less to get folks to switch. Why do you think US Airways is so fearful with Southwest's entry into PHL? At PHL, US Airways is trying to match its 11.5 cent mainline CASM with Southwest's 6.5 cent CASM... Thus US Airways' mainline costs are only double Southwest's.

Love Field to outside the perimeter isn't a bad idea... But has yet to be accomplished successfully... Delta's RJs to ATL and Continental's RJs to CLE have both been dropped. Perhaps because people are willing to drive to DFW to get the nonstop flight? Perhaps because people don't expect to be able to fly outside the Wright Amendment from DAL (they expect to only have that option from DFW)? Perhaps because people are used to buying two separate tickets on Southwest to get around the Wright Amendment rule? I don't know. I suspect if you went in with a sizeable operation and made a big media splash (kinda like Legend but with standard or long-range RJ's) it could work. Then again, you might invite the same response from AA that Legend got.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways will likely eliminate the Pittsburgh to Frankfurt and London service in the fall.

These aircraft will be deployed to Star Alliance airports in the spring. Cities on the short to obtain service are Oslo, Copenhagen, Vienna, and Birmingham.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Oneflyer]

No offense, but the idea of U bring down some Rjs and competing with Southwest in Texas is Laughable. Southwest has flights every 30 minutes and even more often in the morning from DAL-HOU. They have similiar frequency on other routes. The fares are already cheap and people know WN down here, they really don't know USair. All the routes you are talking about are not just served by WN, but by CO, AA, and in some cases DL. AAdvantage members wouldn't hesitate to drive to DFW to fly AA on a main line plane instead of U on a regional from DAL.

 

[ClueByFour]

US Airways will likely eliminate the Pittsburgh to Frankfurt and London service in the fall.

And with it, one of their top 5 corporate contracts in the form of Bayer.

 

[tadjr]

AA currently has 1 flight a day to SJU and at one time had 2 or 3 a day.

Re- Florida flights with RJS. Currently WN flies some intra Florida flights (TPA-JAX/FLL/PBI, JAX-FLL, MCO-FLL/PBI) and thats it. AA has MCO/TPA-MIA flights and AirTran JetConnect has dropped their service leaving AA (and Gulfstreams and our Be1900s as the only alternative in the TPA market). There is also AirTran TPA-TLH and Delta Connection flights to/from Florida cities mainly via MCO (a couple TLH-S Fla nonstops). Nothing except a Beech from TPA-PNS/VPS/PFN/EYW and a couple other Gulfstream/Cape Air routes here and there. I think there is a market for some dedicated RJS in Florida (it must be working for Delta/Chautauqua to be doing it). You wouldnt have to be duking it out with WN in all the markets, there are enough other markets to be had. ie- many of the old Shuttle routes. You also dont need hourly flights in the markets, just 3-4 flights a day in many markets would be what the business/state people would need. There is also a lot of International connecting traffic to/from MIA that arent necessarily on AA International so that isnt a given that the people would be flying on them all the way. Also with the possible beef up of Florida-LGA/BOS/? flights, you would offer an increase in connecting opportunities for the intra Florida flights that wouldnt require going via a hub.
WN is in a couple key cities here, but there is a lot of Florida that is open for the taking (back).

PS- And the walkup TPA-PNS/VPS/PFN isnt chump change.

 

[PBIRAMP]

1. rj's/PBI-caribbean
2.PBI-PVD
3.PBI-LGA
4.PBI-MHT
5.PBI-BOS
6.PBI-LAS
7.PBI-DEN

 

[jimntx]

Ch. 12. I understand your point about LGA-MCO... However, my point is that as long as there are hundreds of people per day traveling LGA-MCO, and less than 100 per day traveling LGA-ILM, for example (I am making up the numbers just to ball-park the order of magnitude), then the greatest potential for profit, assuming all else equal, is with MCO.

However, since (in the Gospel according to Yahoo travel) there are already 18 or 19 non-stop flights a day on LGA-MCO route, and 9 of them are operated by AirTran, how much profit potential do you think there really is?

 

[jimntx]

Regarding the ideas about attacking SW at Love Field (DAL)... The Wright Amendment is still in force with some modification. Originally, an airline could only fly from DAL to airports in the 5 contiguous states--NM, CO, OK, AR, LA. That has since been amended to include MS and AL (???).

The only other concession is that long-haul flights--such as AA was doing from DAL to LGA and LAX to bury Legend--can only be done on a/c with no more than 56 seats. Thus, the F100's that AA flew with only 56 F/C seats. And, most flights they didn't even fill the 56 seats. The AAdvantage miles hook was what made it possible for AA to defeat Legend. If those flights had been profitable they would have continued after Legend went under.

It's also the reason that HOU is still a much bigger hub for SWA than DAL.

Remember also that no one has ever succeeded in retail by trying to out-WalMart WalMart. I don't think you are going to do much damage to SWA on its home turf. If it could be done, AA would have done it a long time ago.

Neither AA or CO offers even RJ service between DAL and HOU (Hobby Airport) and for business travelers between Dallas and Houston those are definitely the preferred airports. CO offers DAL to IAH, but then you are 20 miles from downtown Houston when you arrive. Hobby is about 5 miles from downtown Houston.

 

[tadjr]

Jim, I dont know what you were being shown, but it isnt the same thing I saw.
No Airtran nonstops in the market. A lot of connections via ATL/PHF for them though. The nonstops for May 4 are 2 on Spirit, 4 on AA, 3 on Song and that was it from LGA-MCO. You wouldnt need hourly flights on this route, just 2 or 3 to get back into the market that we once had (along with DL) before AA and Spirit were there. In quite a few of these markets (NE-Florida), we're probably running people thru the hubs connecting that would be better off on a nonstop or 2. The prices for the most part are the same since its by market, but you wouldnt be wasting the time/space/cost of sending them via the hubs.

 

[Ch. 12]

However, since (in the Gospel according to Yahoo travel) there are already 18 or 19 non-stop flights a day on LGA-MCO route, and 9 of them are operated by AirTran, how much profit potential do you think there really is?

Agreed. I would rather have a few small planes going to ILM for the higher yielding passengers in this case rather than fly twice as far to MCO with a plane full of loss leader passengers. Up against the LCCs, that is what would happen. FL, JB, and NK can afford to offer much lower yields than U b/c their CASM is much lower.

But I don't refute your point, Funguy, that U shouldn't tie up all of their precious slots with small market flights. But this is also where U is backed into a corner. They need to fly to more desireable markets but cannot get frequency and/or range b/c they are severely constrained out of their important cities (NY and DC) by perimeter rules.

 

[jimntx]

Jim, I dont know what you were being shown, but it isnt the same thing I saw.
No Airtran nonstops in the market.

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! I didn't read the details when I looked up the routing on Yahoo Travel. I assumed that because it only showed one line for the AirTran flights that they were non-stop when it showed clearly over to the side that they were 1-stop flights.

But even so, how many vacation travelers, and that's what we're talking about on that route, would mind one-stop along the way for a $211 r-t fare? AA is charging $235 for r-t non-stop. I wonder if we are making any money at that price?

 

[tadjr]

I dont see where flying a plane full of MCO connections via the hubs (taking up possibly more $ seats to small connecting cities not served by nonstops) would be better than just taking the MCO people off all the hub flights and sending them nonstop to MCO. We'd be taking them off of the PIT-PHL-CLT-DCA flights and opening up seats for more to be sold from LGA to places like HSV/CAE/TRI that wouldnt otherwise be able to travel on US possibly IF they were sold out with discounted MCO people. In the meantime, cities like ILM, while I'm sure generating decent revenue, would be better off being routed via the hub since you are only going to have some people (not even enough to fill up an RJ nonstop?) and would have limited options otherwise. If you arent competing somewhat in the MCO nonstop market, you risk losing the FFs to AA/DL, etc once they get on them and find out they have nonstops to more of the places they really need/want to go. I dont think there would be that many people who would choose to go to ILM over MCO if they had the option and by catering to those that HAVE to go to ILM you risk losing all of those who want to/have to go to MCO, etc.
Just my opinion.

 

[jimntx]

Mea Culpa! Mea Culpa! I didn't read the details when I looked up the routing on Yahoo Travel. I assumed that because it only showed one line for the AirTran flights that they were non-stop when it showed clearly over to the side that they were 1-stop flights.

But even so, how many vacation travelers, and that's what we're talking about on that route, would mind one-stop along the way for a $211 r-t fare? AA is charging $235 for r-t non-stop. I wonder if we are making any money at that price?

I love travel websites. I just looked at Yahoo travel again to determine if the AirTran flights were direct or change of planes in ATL. Now Yahoo shows NO AirTran flights. It shows only DL and AA and fares as low as $170. No wonder people get confused.

I also looked at US Airways website. It showed 14 different fares in coach for that routing ranging from $144 to $1056. Also, does the website always give an error message each time you hit enter? I selected a departure date and a return date and hit enter. I got a message that said "you must select a departure date" with my selections shown in green. I clicked it again and hit enter. I then got the error message "you must select a return date" with my selections still showing in green. I clicked on the return date selection again and hit enter. It then gave me my routing possibilities. Is anyone in management aware of these website problems?

I spent over 20 years in the Information Technology field, and I won't waste 5 minutes with a "glitchy" website. There are too many other choices on the 'Net.

 

[funguy2]

tadjr:

You have thouroughly flushed out my point! Thanks!

Ch.12:

I am not convinced that frequency is necessarily a problem... I have identified 3-5 slots which could be removed from LGA-BUF...

With random searching, I have identified the following:

LGA-BUF: 9 flights
LGA-ROC: 7
LGA-ORF: 8
LGA-RIC: 7
LGA-GSO: 6
LGA-BTV: 7
LGA-SYR: 10
LGA-MHT: 8
LGA-PVD: 6
LGA-BWI: 10
LGA-RDU: 6
LGA-IND: 7

If you take 1 flight from each market, you can add 12 flights, enough for almost hourly service to ORD (if that was the best opportunity). Or, if you take 2 flights from each, that is 24 departures, which could be 8 new markets nonstop from LGA at 3 flights per day or 6 new nonstop markets from LGA at 4 flights per day.

Can you think of 6 to 8 new nonstop destinations from LGA for US Airways? I can. And, if LGA-BUF has 7 flights instead of 9, how big will the impact really be? I would bet the slight reduction in each of these markets would be more than offset by the gains made by adding new markets...

Notice that I have not even touched the markets where US Airways is the only carrier (like LGA-ILM), or has less than 6 trips currently, or Hubs, or the Shuttle.

The only potential problem I see with this is that I am assuming US Airways has the authority to operate mainline aircraft on slots currently operating Express equipment. I make this assumption because US Air used to operate all its upstate NY, BWI, NC, VA service on mainline... so I assume those slots could go back to mainline, although I don't really know. While I am certain that there are some "Commuter Only" type slots, I am not certain that every Express flight operates on "Commuter Only" slots.