Point To Point Wish List

[Ch. 12]

Funguy,

Actually, when I had mentioned "frequency constraints" I merely meant slots. There is a concrete capacity at these airports and not as much opportunity as at other large airports. I know that U has MANY slots at DCA and LGA, therefore frequency, but there is maximum potential at these airports and they are not condusive to growth.

I stick by the range issue. Sure there are plenty of markets that U can serve out of LGA but I'm not referring to markets like LGA-MSS or LGA-IPT. Nor do I think that they should serve LGA-FLA just to be a non-stop while FL stops in ATL. Indeed, when I check LGA-MCO, there is plenty of frequency on FL and all at $211...well below US's $280. Why in the world would you want to go straight against the LCCs once again when you keep getting buried deeper and deeper with each challenge. And Jim was right...few travellers will be swayed by the non-stop vs. the connection. Price is the driver now...even for the business traveller.

I am with you, Funguy...take away one flight from each of the small markets and that creates potential. Too bad the slot restrictions (time of day) and perimiter rule especially limit the potential. U should not go to unprofitable minor markets just to fill slots nor should they go head to head against the LCCs b/c only one of them has a nonstop. And everyone's analysis is only on LGA...add JFK and ISP for comparison shopping to MCO and there is a tremendous NS flight schedule for LCCs. It's a losing situation.

All I'm saying is that there need to be fresh ideas rather than getting stuck in the paradigm of what has worked in the past b/c the present and future are far different than the recent past of this industry.

 

[ITRADE]

Here's your new Boston service schedule:

DEP BOS 8:20
ARR LAX 11:35
DEP LAX 12:35
ARR BOS 20:50 11:30
DEP BOS 8:10
ARR PHX 11:05
DEP PHX 11:55
ARR BOS 19:50
DEP BOS 20:40
ARR MCO 0:00 14:10
DEP MCO 6:35
ARR BOS 9:40
DEP BOS 10:30
ARR TPA 13:55
DEP TPA 14:30
ARR BOS 17:55
DEP BOS 18:45
ARR SAN 22:00 16:10
DEP SAN 7:00
ARR BOS 15:25
DEP BOS 16:10
ARR FLL 19:20
DEP FLL 20:10
ARR BOS 23:20 11:45
DEP BOS 8:10
ARR SFO 11:40
DEP SFO 12:30
ARR BOS 20:45 12:00
DEP BOS 7:00
ARR PBI 10:15
DEP PBI 11:00
ARR BOS 14:05
DEP BOS 14:55
ARR MCO 18:15
DEP MCO 19:00
ARR BOS 22:05 12:45
DEP BOS 8:15
ARR SJC 11:45
DEP SJC 12:40
ARR BOS 21:20 12:10
DEP TPA 6:15
ARR BOS 9:40
DEP BOS 10:15
ARR MIA 13:30
DEP MIA 14:15
ARR BOS 17:30
DEP BOS 18:20
ARR LAX 21:35 16:10
DEP LAX 6:35
ARR BOS 14:50
DEP BOS 15:35
ARR PBI 18:50
DEP PBI 19:35
ARR BOS 22:40 11:35
DEP BOS 7:00
ARR MCO 10:20
DEP MCO 11:00
ARR BOS 14:05
DEP BOS 14:50
ARR TPA 18:15
DEP TPA 19:00
ARR BOS 22:25 13:15
DEP BOS 8:10
ARR SEA 11:15
DEP SEA 12:05
ARR BOS 20:15
DEP BOS 21:00
ARR TPA 0:25 14:40
DEP SFO 8:00
ARR BOS 16:30
DEP BOS 17:30
ARR SFO 21:00 12:00
DEP MSY 6:15
ARR BOS 10:40
DEP BOS 11:30
ARR FLL 14:40
DEP FLL 15:30
ARR BOS 18:40
DEP BOS 19:50
ARR MSY 22:40 13:35

 

[funguy2]

Ch. 12:

You have given examples of what you would not do... Florida and extremely small markets...

What would you do with those newly created opportunities. I noted Florida because, LCC service notwithstanding, its a place people in NYC want to travel to. Step one of any proftiable enterprise is to offer customers something they want to buy. NYC-Florida is something lots of folks want to buy, as evidenced by all the flights in that market which you have noted. Yes, LGA does have restrictions, so you have to work within the perimeter...

So what do you think... More smallish/midsized communities like Jackson, MS, Huntsville, AL, Grand Rapids, MI?

Take on the hub carriers to ORD, DTW, MSP, MEM, DFW, etc?

A whole bunch of nonstops to Canada YYZ, YUL, YQB, YHZ?

Midwest Express type service to OMA, MCI, ICT, TUL, OKC?

Its time to think of things that can work instead of just reminding everyone that we cannot go "Back to the Future" and assume it will work again.

 

[mbmbbost]

Ch. 12:

You have given examples of what you would not do... Florida and extremely small markets...

What would you do with those newly created opportunities. I noted Florida because, LCC service notwithstanding, its a place people in NYC want to travel to. Step one of any proftiable enterprise is to offer customers something they want to buy. NYC-Florida is something lots of folks want to buy, as evidenced by all the flights in that market which you have noted. Yes, LGA does have restrictions, so you have to work within the perimeter...

So what do you think... More smallish/midsized communities like Jackson, MS, Huntsville, AL, Grand Rapids, MI?

Take on the hub carriers to ORD, DTW, MSP, MEM, DFW, etc?

A whole bunch of nonstops to Canada YYZ, YUL, YQB, YHZ?

Midwest Express type service to OMA, MCI, ICT, TUL, OKC?

Its time to think of things that can work instead of just reminding everyone that we cannot go "Back to the Future" and assume it will work again.

I think you're right Funguy. Speaking from the BOS perspective, I think it makes no sense not to offer NYC or BOS to Florida nonstops. There are still a lot of people that would rather fly US than a LCC, and will pay some kind of premium for a nonstop. The very low fares so often mentioned for the LCCs are often not available. They MUST be selling many of the seats are more profitable rates. And for the number of people making the BOS/Florida or NYC/Florida trips on US, it seems like bypassing the hubs on US would cut some of the losses some are so convinced are inevitable. US really needs to offer some decent Florida service if they want to do well in the NE and hold on to certain FF's (like me).
Also, I don't understand the constant reference some make to CASM when talking about specific routes like these when they say revenue won't cover it. Who knows what the ACTUAL cost per seat mile is on a PARTICULAR route? How does the cost compare when you're sending a plane full of people nonstop from the NE to Florida versus sending them through a hub? It seems to me that using systemwide figures for CASM makes a lot of not necessarily valid assumptions about what it may or may not cost to operate on specific routes.

 

[Art at ISP]

If we are looking at going head to head with WN, then ISP should be a natural-it has no slot restrictions and can take some of the passengers who would normally use LGA. My wish list for point to point would be:

ISP-anywhere BUT PHL!!!!!


Once upon a time we had ISP-MCO, CLT, DCA, PIT, etc. etc.

I think its time to take another look at ISP, especially since WN has gotten so strong here.

Overall I think we're on the right track here....

My best to you all......

 

[LongIsland2004]

I would like to see some flights on RJs from ISP-ALB and ISP-BUF. There are many LIers that would love to fly on these routes(BUF is a 10 Hour ride by car) but air fares have been much to high. (I.E. $400 R/T on Prop planes) If US gets in now with common sense fares, they might get a loyal following, however if when SWA finishes there New Terminal at ISP, they might start ISP-ALB or ISP-BUF also. At this point, US will never get in on the action.

 

[NCFL]

When are the people in CCY gonna realize that we have one of the biggest Latino populations in the Southeastern U.S.?

They have. Why do you think US just started CLT-MEX? NC has experienced one of the country's highest % growth in Mexican-American population.

 

[tadjr]

They have. Why do you think US just started CLT-MEX? NC has experienced one of the country's highest % growth in Mexican-American population.

The WE in his post was refering to TAMPA and CENTRAL FLORIDA, not NC. The I-4 corridor (Tampa-Disney-Orlando-Daytona) has one of the fastest growing Puerto Rican populations in the States.

 

[Ch. 12]

Funguy,

I point out the problems b/c that is where the solutions will come from. I point out that LGA and DCA both have perimiter and slot restrictions that make them difficult hub-type cities for a carrier interested in cutting costs and generating opportunity. Perhaps the obvious is to gain a presence in proximal airports such as IAD, EWR, etc where there is limited LCC competetion and fly to larger markets. I know that U had built up BWI but cannot serve the best markets competitively b/c WN flies to those with highest potential. But U needs to go from DC/NY to large markets...including the west which I have mentioned in another thread. I wish that I currently had the time to plow through specific markets but I'm unable to devote that much effort right now. It is easiest for me to look at what has NOT worked and try to fix that.

Along the same lines...I guess I get frustrated. I guarantee you that there will be another carrier that thinks that they can fly reconfigured a/c out of DAL and be unnoticed by AA...I guarantee you that another carrier will make their primary hub in MCI thinking that excellent geography makes profitability...I guarantee you that another carrier will hub in PIT thinking that U will be their only competition (while not realizing that the lack of local demand is the major adversary there)...I guarantee you that another carrier will think that if you fly into unserved markets you will be guaranteed profit...and I guarantee you that another high cost carrier will jump into the hellhole of a high frequency LCC market b/c they feel that there is substantial demand that does NOT want to fly the LCCs and will pay a premium to fly you.

This industry is extremely cyclical and the biggest reason is that few mistakes are learned from. There is too much pride in the notion that "I'll do it better than they did in the past".

OK...done with my ranting now. Sorry about that.

Mbmbbost,

I mention CASM on a particular route b/c it is extremely important. The reason that costs are spread out over seat miles is to take into account the longer routes some take to get to a destination (US: DCA-CLT-TPA vs. WN: BWI-TPA). And when I refer to CASM, I am referring to that on a particular route and not on a network as I have mentioned numerous times that it is illogical to compare carriers systemwide CASMs only (unless looking at the RASM at the same time). So if my references to CASM in the past are what you are referring to, I stand by it b/c it is the best industry benchmark when comparing same routes. I agree with you, though, that it is pointless to compare systemwide CASMs only.

 

[funguy2]

Along the same lines...I guess I get frustrated. I guarantee you that there will be another carrier that thinks that they can fly reconfigured a/c out of DAL and be unnoticed by AA...I guarantee you that another carrier will make their primary hub in MCI thinking that excellent geography makes profitability...I guarantee you that another carrier will hub in PIT thinking that U will be their only competition (while not realizing that the lack of local demand is the major adversary there)...I guarantee you that another carrier will think that if you fly into unserved markets you will be guaranteed profit...and I guarantee you that another high cost carrier will jump into the hellhole of a high frequency LCC market b/c they feel that there is substantial demand that does NOT want to fly the LCCs and will pay a premium to fly you.

... And I guarantee that these will all be failures...

"Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."