US Airways firms up order for 20 A350 Airbus planes

[LCC_#1]

The name USAirWays Implies: Lies, deceit, falsehoods, depraved CEO's and other top executives, unions promising the world delivering nothing to stop the insanity, families broken, suicides and mental problems for employees who can't handle the cruel and unusual punishment that is a part of U employment, want me to go on. To criticize anyone who would point to the truth, which is in your opinion, doom and gloom, is a self preservation mechanism to keep your own sanity. Denying the harsh hard insane realities that IS U, is the sign of mental illness in itself.

I rest my case. 99% of the post here eventually go negative or take personal stabs at others. I'm not denying the realities and yes, orders mean nothing, but you proved me right. What was it, two or three post past mine?

SpinDoc,
you were right. I jumped the gun. Sorry

 

[awausairtech]

For years I have listened to the need to rationalize the fleet. And now they want another fleet type? I'm sure there is some commonality between the 330 and 350 but I would bet that it's not much.

They should get some A330-200's instead of the 350's. That way it stays in the same family. After all, aren't all Airbus aircraft wide bodies????

What is the rationale behind this impending blunder???

MONEY, FOOT HOLD GET A GRIP. Open your eyes. Do I have to say more U are out of bk. HAVE A NICE DAY.

 

[twoturnin]

Just hope the 350 has some engines and brakes---items which the 330 does not have on our's--but it does have a great wing----anyway by the time the 350's are here 27% of east coasters will be retired. The key word for flying this bird is career expection.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Maybe so.

But it wasn't too long ago that another USAirways CEO ordered 400 A320 and 30 A330 airplanes to make sure USAirways was the "Global Carrier of Choice."

So far there are just over 100 A320 Family and a mere 9 A330's in the fleet.(US/East)

Bottom line: You can order lots of planes, but until they arrive and start to work, it's just hot air.

Just more of the same ... airplanes in the future not to ever be realized on the property. It may be that Airbus will kill the A350 before it even goes to production. LCC (U) will be in its usual position of being years behind the competition; holding an empty
A350 bag and no 787s (just like no 777s). I still have not seen anything of substance from this "new" management team. More empty suits. Come on Tempe, prove me wrong! I really want to be wrong!

N924PS and Autofixer --

You have both expressed my own views superbly.

This company is notorious for pie-in-the-sky announcements that NEVER, EVER come to fruition.

I'm still looking for all those 737-400's that were ordered and we paid dearly to cancel.

Take a look at the mainline fleet in April, 2006. That will essentially be the fleet in April, 2010. The only growth we will see is from Brazil. CCY-Tempe will see to that.

 

[john john]

Are you at all familiar with the Airbus family??? If not, a 1 minute cursory glance of their website would have prevented you from pontificating rubbish.

The A330/340/350 are widebodies. The A31x,A32x are narrowbodies.

From the Airbus web site: "The A350 will have the same type rating as the A330.....Pilots with fly-by-wire experience will be able to qualify on the A350 after a short training course"

Management knows exactly what they are doing in this case. USAirways was the U.S. launch customer for the A321 and A330 and both have proven exceptionally well with the passengers. They have also minimized pilot training/recurrency and maintenance costs from what they were 5 years ago when there were numerous other types on the property.

If US were to go with a Boeing widebody, that would be a complete step in the OTHER direction in terms of fleet commonality. If the A350 doesn't meet the specs that are called for, then the airline can easily get A330's(-200 or -300 models) to fill the gap. I'm still wondering what's become of the A330-200 order from pre-merger, though.

Like the E-190 and the E-170

Maybe so.

But it wasn't too long ago that another USAirways CEO ordered 400 A320 and 30 A330 airplanes to make sure USAirways was the "Global Carrier of Choice."

So far there are just over 100 A320 Family and a mere 9 A330's in the fleet.(US/East)

Bottom line: You can order lots of planes, but until they arrive and start to work, it's just hot air.

The US pilots bought this hook line and sinker .I hope they have learned there lesson.E-190 E-170

 

[BoeingBoy]

From the pilot's perspective, the A350 will be similiar enough to the A330 to probably only require differences training - one of the benefits of fly-by-wire and glass cockpits.

Otherwise, design "tweaks" have removed much of the commonality between the A350 and A330. The following excerpts are from an Aviation Week article on the last redesign of the A350:

Airbus has again revised its plans for the A350, turning it from an A330-derivative to a new widebody in the face of rival Boeing's success with its 787.

After first saying the existing A330/A340 family would suffice to compete with the 787, and last year amending that to projecting a mere derivative of the A330, the aircraft will now undergo a more dramatic transformation--a new development at a higher price. About "90% of the part numbers are going to be changed" over the current aircraft type, says Olivier Andries, A350 program manager.

The 193-ft.-long, 57.1-ft.-high A350-800 will have a 200-ft. 5-in. wingspan. Its maximum takeoff weight would be around 540,100 lb., with a manufacturer's empty weight of 230,700 lb. The 209-ft. 8-in.-long A350-900 would have the same height and wingspan. Empty weight is estimated at 239,000 lb.

Composites will comprise 39% of the A350: aluminum-lithium parts, 23%; steel, 14%; aluminum, 11%; titanium, 9% and other materials the balance. This has led to 17,600 lb. of weight reduction, Andries says. Composite use on the A380 is 20%.

Commonality with the A330 won't disappear entirely. The cockpit will remain largely the same, as will the type rating. But functionalities will be enhanced, Andries says, to be "at least" identical to the 787.

Airbus will offer the aircraft with the General Electric GEnx engine Boeing uses on the 787. The GEnx will come in four thrust ratings from 63,000-75,000 lb. Discussions are in the final stage for the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000, Leahy indicated. But Andries says the Rolls availability will likely come later.

Leahy says the A350-800 will offer 258 seats in a two-class configuration--more than the A330--largely by moving the rear bulkhead aft, along with the avionics bay and crew rest area. With full passenger load, the range is expected to reach 8,200 naut. mi., and, Leahy claims, keep operating costs below the 787-800's.

The A350-900 would have 316 seats in a two-class configuration. Leahy concedes that the -900 underperforms the 787-9 in one area--range. The -900 reaches 7,500 naut. mi. compared with the 787's 7,700. However, he says efforts are underway to boost this to 7,700-7,800 naut. mi.

Jim

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Good info Jim. Guess nobody knows the details of the performance specs the 350 has to meet? If Airbus is upgrading this has to be a good thing, but with the upgrades I'm sure the price will go up. Might this be a loophole the company can use to get out of the deal struck with Airbus?

 

[aerosmith]

Nice to read some factual data every now and then.
Thanks Boeingboy.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If Airbus is upgrading this has to be a good thing, but with the upgrades I'm sure the price will go up. Might this be a loophole the company can use to get out of the deal struck with Airbus?

Also from Aviation Week:

-----
Airbus has raised list prices across its product line. The prices, which typically are above what airlines actually pay, increased about 3% on average. For the new A350-800, the list price has gone up to $158.6 million from $153.5 million. The most expensive aircraft, the A380, now commands a list price of up to $302 million.
-----

I wouldn't count on the increase in list prices being a loophole. These price increases were announced in June (the last redesign of the A350 was announced in May), well before Airbus actually handed over the $250 million.

Jim

ps - the performance specs are redacted in the A350 order document.

 

[FLYAWAY]

Ok ROBBEDAGAIN and PHL,

Keep your shorts on. Let me clarify my statement somewhat.
The A318/319/320/321 family of aircraft are "Wide bodies" of sorts when compared to the 737 family. Airbus even touts their extra wide cabins vs Boeing.

After 20+ years working on real wide bodies (747, 767, 330, DC10), you know...the aircraft with twin aisles, I think I know what a "true" wide body aircraft is. So spare me the lecture.

PHL, About me pontificating rubbish......? I sometimes forget about the audience which gets to read my posts....including those lacking intellect (PHL).
You certainly sound like an expert on the subject and seem to have it all figured out right here on this forum <_< . I was simply stating my view on the subject and you come along and immediately attempt to discredit me with YOUR self righteous "visit the Airbus website" RUBBISH!!

Hey PHL, KISS THIS (!)

Actually, Airbus refers to the A320 series as "single isle" aircraft as opposed to the boeing as "narrow body". However, the A320 series is wider than the boeing narrow body, but not considered a "wide body". Figure that out...

 

[nycbusdriver]

Actually, Airbus refers to the A320 series as "single isle" aircraft as opposed to the boeing as "narrow body". However, the A320 series is wider than the boeing narrow body, but not considered a "wide body". Figure that out...

I thought the Airbus jargon was "standard" body for the A320 series, while Boeing has pretty much stuck themselves with the term "narrow" body.

 

[PHL]

Leahy says the A350-800 will offer 258 seats in a two-class configuration--more than the A330--largely by moving the rear bulkhead aft, along with the avionics bay and crew rest area.

I was just looking at the Airbus web site about this model and they are still touting the crew rest area as being directly under the flight deck, thereby allowing the pilots to remain behind the secure door. Is this changing, or is the crew rest area described in the above quote for the F/A's?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Apparently the crew rest area will still be under the cockpit. From the same article:

-----
The new crew rest area will be under the cockpit. It allows direct access from the cockpit and a space that can be secured from the passenger area. The area is being put in place without a major disruption of the avionics bay. Only the inflight entertainment kit would have to be moved to the back of the aircraft, Andries says.
-----

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

Apparently the crew rest area will still be under the cockpit. From the same article:

-----
The new crew rest area will be under the cockpit. It allows direct access from the cockpit and a space that can be secured from the passenger area. The area is being put in place without a major disruption of the avionics bay. Only the inflight entertainment kit would have to be moved to the back of the aircraft, Andries says.
-----

Jim

I can't wait to snuggle up to that nice warm battery charger for an oceanic snooze! At least I won't have to worry about my snoring waking up the envoy passengers.

 

[E-TRONS]

Otherwise, design "tweaks" have removed much of the commonality between the A350 and A330. The following excerpts are from an Aviation Week article on the last redesign of the A350:

Airbus has again revised its plans for the A350, turning it from an A330-derivative to a new widebody in the face of rival Boeing's success with its 787.

About "90% of the part numbers are going to be changed" over the current aircraft type, says Olivier Andries, A350 program manager[/b].


Hey PHL,

Have you read this?? I guess AW&ST is backing up what I said about the 350 being in a different family.
I LOVE when I'm right

Keep em straight & level Boeingboy!!