USA320Pilot
Veteran
- May 18, 2003
- 8,175
- 1,539
US Airways, America West Pilots Demand Fair, Single Contract
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
Bout time we made this more public. Unreal. AFA, you're next. Hello? ? :unsure:
luv2fly
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- Aug 21, 2002
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aquagreen73s
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- Aug 22, 2005
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JNC Update – January 30, 2007
Last week, the JNC met with management representatives in Washington, D.C., from Tuesday, January 23 through Friday, January 26. Although there were some expectations of positive results since management agreed to extend talks one extra day (Friday), they quickly dwindled as early as day one of the four-day talks. Tuesday and Wednesday of these negotiations led the JNC to label the beginning of this session as "absolutely insulting."
The Association passed counter proposals of Sections 7, 14, 23, and 24 and anticipated a counter from management on Sections 4, 5, 9, 10, 11 and 12. The JNC did not pass a counter proposal for Section 25 as planned.
Section 7: Vacations
Management’s reaction to our Section 7 (Vacation) was disappointing, as they have not moved off their concessionary 3:00 hours per day proposal. Note that the current East rate is 3:45 per day and the West rate is 3:40 per day. The JNC has proposed an increase in the number of vacation days per year and a rate per day of 3:45.
Section 14: Sick Leave
Section 14, is the classic example of the management's negotiating tactics. The parties reached an administrative (TA) "tentatively agreed" on this section back in November 2005 using the current West book as a frame work. Management then decided to renege 10 months later in August 2006 when they ignored that tentative agreement and instead proposed an archaic two-bank system that is a by product of the East LOA 93, this would be a major concession for the West pilots. On Friday, management did offer a "pick one—East or West," for Section 14 (Sick Leave). The West is a one-bank system with a 500-hours max, and the East is a two-bank system with a 1500-hour max.
Section 23: Reduction in Force
Section 23 has been a struggle with management. The section thus far resembles current West book, but we would like to see furlough pay even in the case of a Force Majeure event. The Association also requires that a furloughed pilot remain on the seniority list indefinitely, whereas management would like to put a 10 year cap on furloughees, after which they would be terminated.
Section 24: Filling of Vacancies
Filling of Vacancies is nearly complete. It very closely resembles current West book. The sticking point on this one is seat locks. Management is offering only one transition to another piece of equipment for First Officers, unless that transition results in an increase in pay rate, with a seat lock for two years. This is unacceptable in our view. Our reasoning is that in an Airline this size, Pilots need the flexibility to occasionally bid to other similar paying equipment for a variety of reasons, and therefore as long as the lock is met, this should be allowed without restriction.
Section 25: Scheduling
Our scheduling proposal is a comprehensive package best viewed in conjunction with Sections 4 and 12. The JNC has used the current West book as the basis to develop our current Section 25 proposal. The goal of the JNC was to correct known problems that exist in the current West agreement by modifying or adding language as necessary to substantially improve Section 25. Some of the issues addressed in Section 25 include improved language for being rescheduled or rerouted, improved language for our Reserve pilots including better Aggressive Reserve language, more PBS bid options for RSV days of availability, improved language for reserve pilots to pick-up open time on their days off. We added additional language to improve the Pilot-to-Pilot Trades and Pairing Trades with Open Time. In addition, for the first time we have written a definition for Irregular Operations, which is something we did not previously have in the West book.
Management’s counter proposals:
Section 4: Pay Guarantees, Rigs, Premiums
Management’s pass on Section 4 was a concessionary interpretation of our current book. In addition to a reduction of our monthly guarantee from 78 to71 hours, management’s position includes no trip rigs or guarantees for any split trips, no long rate rig, reduction of IV pay from 150% to 125%, a reduction of vacation pay to 3.0 hours (from 3:45 on the East and 3:40 on the West currently). Additionally, management would like to not have to pay 5:15 for a duty period with only a DH in it, and reduce reserve guarantee pay to 3:55 per day, down from 4:17. Clearly, this is unacceptable to us.
Section 5: Compensation for Expenses, Hotels and Transportation
Management’s proposal contains two points of contention. First, the Association would like management to bear some of the cost for the inspections which the Union must do to verify to quality of our hotels. Our concern is that we would like to ensure that management is inspecting the hotel. If they do not, then we need to, and they should pay for it. The other sticking point is parking. In management’s proposal, parking will be provided in domicile only. On the East, commuters are paid a stipend to offset the cost of parking outside of their domicile.
Section 9: Miscellaneous Flying, Special Category Flying, and Transfer to Non-Flying or Supervisory Duty
The Association and management have a fundamental philosophical difference on this section. We believe that the Vice President of Flight Operations and other similar positions should be filled from the ranks of our pilots from our seniority list. Management believes that it has the right to hire anyone off the street and allow them to fly any piece of equipment they choose, regardless of seniority.
Section 10: Covered Pilots
This counter was concessionary in many aspects. They would like to hire an unlimited number of Check Airmen, but only pay them when they actually do a checking event. This would result in a cut in pay for all of the West Check Airmen. Management would also like to implement a program whereby Check Airmen may be furloughed out of seniority order.
Section 11: Training
We have Tentatively Agreed to Section 11. Among issues worked out were a ban on involuntary assignment to seat support (including reserves), and a ban on long course training during Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Section 12: Hours of Service
Management’s proposal on Section 12 was unacceptable. Their positions include a 71-hour lineholder guarantee vs. the West's 78 hours. The reserve system resembles LOA 93 with 11 days off and only four golden/immoveable days. And they dropped the West's long rate rig (RON), which would have put an end to three days of work for only two duty periods pay.
The JNC collectively decided to work among themselves on Thursday, in which they bundled Section 4 (Guarantees), Section 12 (Hours of Service), and Section 25 (Scheduling).
When negotiations resumed on Friday, the JNC made it clear that management’s continuing concessionary proposals were "dead on arrival" and a final product with the type of proposals they are passing would never be ratified by either pilot group.
Also on Friday, management made another pass on vacation, and again the JNC was looking at a major concessionary proposal of three hours per day vs. the East 3:45 hours per day.
Your negotiators frankly asked management where they see these negotiations going at this point. It was clear that the management representatives lacked an articulate and acceptable response. The JNC knows that in order for any chance of change or positive developments in these negotiations to occur, this pilot group must continue to follow the direction of their union. Stay informed and get involved.
Last week, the JNC met with management representatives in Washington, D.C., from Tuesday, January 23 through Friday, January 26. Although there were some expectations of positive results since management agreed to extend talks one extra day (Friday), they quickly dwindled as early as day one of the four-day talks. Tuesday and Wednesday of these negotiations led the JNC to label the beginning of this session as "absolutely insulting."
The Association passed counter proposals of Sections 7, 14, 23, and 24 and anticipated a counter from management on Sections 4, 5, 9, 10, 11 and 12. The JNC did not pass a counter proposal for Section 25 as planned.
Section 7: Vacations
Management’s reaction to our Section 7 (Vacation) was disappointing, as they have not moved off their concessionary 3:00 hours per day proposal. Note that the current East rate is 3:45 per day and the West rate is 3:40 per day. The JNC has proposed an increase in the number of vacation days per year and a rate per day of 3:45.
Section 14: Sick Leave
Section 14, is the classic example of the management's negotiating tactics. The parties reached an administrative (TA) "tentatively agreed" on this section back in November 2005 using the current West book as a frame work. Management then decided to renege 10 months later in August 2006 when they ignored that tentative agreement and instead proposed an archaic two-bank system that is a by product of the East LOA 93, this would be a major concession for the West pilots. On Friday, management did offer a "pick one—East or West," for Section 14 (Sick Leave). The West is a one-bank system with a 500-hours max, and the East is a two-bank system with a 1500-hour max.
Section 23: Reduction in Force
Section 23 has been a struggle with management. The section thus far resembles current West book, but we would like to see furlough pay even in the case of a Force Majeure event. The Association also requires that a furloughed pilot remain on the seniority list indefinitely, whereas management would like to put a 10 year cap on furloughees, after which they would be terminated.
Section 24: Filling of Vacancies
Filling of Vacancies is nearly complete. It very closely resembles current West book. The sticking point on this one is seat locks. Management is offering only one transition to another piece of equipment for First Officers, unless that transition results in an increase in pay rate, with a seat lock for two years. This is unacceptable in our view. Our reasoning is that in an Airline this size, Pilots need the flexibility to occasionally bid to other similar paying equipment for a variety of reasons, and therefore as long as the lock is met, this should be allowed without restriction.
Section 25: Scheduling
Our scheduling proposal is a comprehensive package best viewed in conjunction with Sections 4 and 12. The JNC has used the current West book as the basis to develop our current Section 25 proposal. The goal of the JNC was to correct known problems that exist in the current West agreement by modifying or adding language as necessary to substantially improve Section 25. Some of the issues addressed in Section 25 include improved language for being rescheduled or rerouted, improved language for our Reserve pilots including better Aggressive Reserve language, more PBS bid options for RSV days of availability, improved language for reserve pilots to pick-up open time on their days off. We added additional language to improve the Pilot-to-Pilot Trades and Pairing Trades with Open Time. In addition, for the first time we have written a definition for Irregular Operations, which is something we did not previously have in the West book.
Management’s counter proposals:
Section 4: Pay Guarantees, Rigs, Premiums
Management’s pass on Section 4 was a concessionary interpretation of our current book. In addition to a reduction of our monthly guarantee from 78 to71 hours, management’s position includes no trip rigs or guarantees for any split trips, no long rate rig, reduction of IV pay from 150% to 125%, a reduction of vacation pay to 3.0 hours (from 3:45 on the East and 3:40 on the West currently). Additionally, management would like to not have to pay 5:15 for a duty period with only a DH in it, and reduce reserve guarantee pay to 3:55 per day, down from 4:17. Clearly, this is unacceptable to us.
Section 5: Compensation for Expenses, Hotels and Transportation
Management’s proposal contains two points of contention. First, the Association would like management to bear some of the cost for the inspections which the Union must do to verify to quality of our hotels. Our concern is that we would like to ensure that management is inspecting the hotel. If they do not, then we need to, and they should pay for it. The other sticking point is parking. In management’s proposal, parking will be provided in domicile only. On the East, commuters are paid a stipend to offset the cost of parking outside of their domicile.
Section 9: Miscellaneous Flying, Special Category Flying, and Transfer to Non-Flying or Supervisory Duty
The Association and management have a fundamental philosophical difference on this section. We believe that the Vice President of Flight Operations and other similar positions should be filled from the ranks of our pilots from our seniority list. Management believes that it has the right to hire anyone off the street and allow them to fly any piece of equipment they choose, regardless of seniority.
Section 10: Covered Pilots
This counter was concessionary in many aspects. They would like to hire an unlimited number of Check Airmen, but only pay them when they actually do a checking event. This would result in a cut in pay for all of the West Check Airmen. Management would also like to implement a program whereby Check Airmen may be furloughed out of seniority order.
Section 11: Training
We have Tentatively Agreed to Section 11. Among issues worked out were a ban on involuntary assignment to seat support (including reserves), and a ban on long course training during Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Section 12: Hours of Service
Management’s proposal on Section 12 was unacceptable. Their positions include a 71-hour lineholder guarantee vs. the West's 78 hours. The reserve system resembles LOA 93 with 11 days off and only four golden/immoveable days. And they dropped the West's long rate rig (RON), which would have put an end to three days of work for only two duty periods pay.
The JNC collectively decided to work among themselves on Thursday, in which they bundled Section 4 (Guarantees), Section 12 (Hours of Service), and Section 25 (Scheduling).
When negotiations resumed on Friday, the JNC made it clear that management’s continuing concessionary proposals were "dead on arrival" and a final product with the type of proposals they are passing would never be ratified by either pilot group.
Also on Friday, management made another pass on vacation, and again the JNC was looking at a major concessionary proposal of three hours per day vs. the East 3:45 hours per day.
Your negotiators frankly asked management where they see these negotiations going at this point. It was clear that the management representatives lacked an articulate and acceptable response. The JNC knows that in order for any chance of change or positive developments in these negotiations to occur, this pilot group must continue to follow the direction of their union. Stay informed and get involved.
Hawkhunter
Veteran
- Jul 11, 2005
- 577
- 521
WAR
luv2fly
Veteran
- Aug 21, 2002
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aquagreen73s
Veteran
- Aug 22, 2005
- 1,979
- 1,877
Same goes for Phoenix. It's no wonder that the beatings continue, and WILL continue, until...
Until guys like 320 and his GAG retire. The backbone is only as strong as the weakest link. 320's link is made of balsa wood.
All DP has to do is threaten something, anything, and the GAG will be back in full force. Who do you think is taxiing on one engine?
Or doing other people's jobs.
pilot
All DP has to do is threaten something, anything, and the GAG will be back in full force. Who do you think is taxiing on one engine?
Or doing other people's jobs.
pilot
grog_sit_reserv
Member
- Oct 28, 2006
- 53
- 0
What we need to do is reassess the safety of Flap 3 landings, and bare minimums for fuel loads.
I mean, an extra 500# of gas, on pretty much every leg is a way to enhance safety for deviations and possible holds and we can order that any time. Oh, flap 3 landings while burning 50 lbs less fuel is great for cost effectiveness, really give you a higher ref speed and an odd pitch attitude which could be unsafe. Oh, 2 engine taxi should be used in case you need to get across the runway quick...
Just a thought.
I mean, an extra 500# of gas, on pretty much every leg is a way to enhance safety for deviations and possible holds and we can order that any time. Oh, flap 3 landings while burning 50 lbs less fuel is great for cost effectiveness, really give you a higher ref speed and an odd pitch attitude which could be unsafe. Oh, 2 engine taxi should be used in case you need to get across the runway quick...
Just a thought.
hp_fa
Veteran
- Feb 19, 2004
- 3,290
- 178
From the July 26, 2002 Charlotte Observer:
"Brinkmanship by any union could push the airline into bankruptcy. It's disappointing to see a relatively small group of employees risk the destruction of a viable company, with a devastating effect on 40,000 employees and their families."
USA320PilotUS Airways captain
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