United Mechanics vote on new contract extensio

[SWAMECH]

TSH, can you share the info on the Teamcare language? If they are still trying to force the teamcare, that is a huge negative...

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

TSH, can you share the info on the Teamcare language? If they are still trying to force the teamcare, that is a huge negative...

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IBT-UA-TA-and-APP-A-2.pdf

See the Article 16 language - last item on page 4

Couple the above with this from the ibt December 6th, 2023 update

"...Your IBT Negotiating Committee met at Local 769 in Miami the week of December 4, 2023.

We started the week with your Benefits Committee to discuss Article 16 and how we can reduce benefit costs to our members across the board. As discussed at several system meetings, it is our fiduciary responsibility to determine whether TeamCare is an option that we should explore as one of the ways to reduce overall benefits costs to all members. ..."


its clearly obvious where they're trying to go. No thank you.

 

[WeAAsles]

Then as I said, good on the TWU at SWA for protecting their members.




More like you're done because your positions on AMFA's growth, even as small as you like to deride, is more than any of the unions at the legacies have been able to accomplish.

Oh and btw, you citing bias in anyone is laughable, your anti-bias is flagrant, as our recent exchange on the ibt allowing foreign outsourcing and your tepid response clearly illustrates.




I have no issue with the amount of money as presented. I do take issue with the fact that this extension, which we were told was driven by the company, has NO money on signing - NO increase, NO bonus. That's a first for me - if the company approached the union for an extension then at a minimum there should be money date of signing.

Further, our reset language is in effect, with no ratification of this extension, our reset should pay out in December, without giving up a word of the CBA - Yes, it might equate to the close to 11% total we'd have on the year, but if the company wants it so bad, vote no, and tell them simple to put the first AUG raise on DOS.





Yes, I'm voting NO.

While the language in article 16 doesn't mention Teamcare by name, they ibt has already given the game away with their update a few weeks ago ... its Teamcare they're after. To be clear, I'm not blaming our frontline negotiators on this one as I'm sure the directive came from on high.

And again, to be clear, if that article 16 language was removed, I'd vote YES.




When I first saw it, even though the medical made it a NO for me, I honestly thought it would probably pass. After talking with fellow techs the last 2 days, I'm not so sure.

There is no 1 issue that people are centered on -

- Some don't like the lack of $$$ at DOS

- Some don't like the holiday move change ( lots of line techs especially )

- Some ( like me ) don't like the thinly veiled Teamcare language

- ALL the recent new hires hate it because the union did nothing to shorten the time-to-topout - UAL is currently 8 years


I guess we'll see

Ok this is a Message Board and everyone is entitled to an “opinion” so I’m just giving my “opinion” based on 29 years of Airline service and also thinking 🤔 in your shoes if I was wearing them.

I think you’re wrong and maybe even a little crazy to vote no.

The wages raise the bar across the board for the entire industry. On a yearly basis you’re even pushing into Pilot 🧑‍✈️ territory which is something your groups have always said you deserve. On top of those raises you even keep that Golden Ticket 🎫 Industry look back.

Again I don’t know of anyone else who has that look back? 👏 to the IBT. Credit where credit is due and earned.

Bonus? You’re not entitled or owed a bonus or retro. UAL is giving you a seamless deal. A Bonus or retro is usually only given because the Company owes you money for stalling your talks. In this case they’re bringing you up by almost 11% this year which about matches last years inflation and you’ll get 3% plus if anyone goes above you in the following years.

The kids don’t like the 8 years to TOS? Maybe they should talk to some Pilot groups that don’t top out until 11 years. They can push that if they want but good luck getting it lowered.

The Holiday move. Ok that sucks but I’m single and could live with it. I’m fortunate enough now with my money to not think on a paycheck to paycheck basis but a yearly basis now. Fruits of my labor nearing retirement. So I’d shrug my shoulders in the change.

Teamcare: Your Elephant in the room. It’s not there. It’s currently an imaginary animal. It’s not being offered in the extension agreement. If it ever was offered again you’d have to vote on it. If that vote ever comes you can do what you want but it’s not there now, today.

“IF” it ever was offered as an “option” maybe in addition ➕ to the Company offered plans I’d think about it. I’d do my homework though and not look at it as some kind of boogeyman. Again I wouldn’t mind it offered as an “option”. I consider myself smart enough to do my own due diligence. Maybe I’d sign up and think those who don’t are nuts? Or maybe vice versa. Anyway I like “choices”

We had the same scenario with the IAMPF. IAM wanted to negotiate the “choice” for TWU members and our negotiators had no interest in it being a choice. I more than likely would have said no and stuck with my 401K contribution but I’d like to have had that choice for myself and not had it decided for me.

Anyway again personal opinion but I’d vote an enthusiastic YES on that extension if it came my way. But looking through the History, I’ve seen AMT’s throughout this Industry make a lot of irrational financial decisions. Maybe a Leppard really never does change its spots?

 

[WeAAsles]

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IBT-UA-TA-and-APP-A-2.pdf

See the Article 16 language - last item on page 4

Couple the above with this from the ibt December 6th, 2023 update

"...Your IBT Negotiating Committee met at Local 769 in Miami the week of December 4, 2023.

We started the week with your Benefits Committee to discuss Article 16 and how we can reduce benefit costs to our members across the board. As discussed at several system meetings, it is our fiduciary responsibility to determine whether TeamCare is an option that we should explore as one of the ways to reduce overall benefits costs to all members. ..."


its clearly obvious where they're trying to go. No thank you.

Please tell me that you understand this?

It says “NOTHING” about Teamcare. What it says worded differently is:

“We’re going to work together with the Company to see if we can find ways to lower Medical costs for everyone. When or if we find those cost savings and agree we will have to inform the Membership and they will have to VOTE for any changes. If the Membership votes no to those changes then unfortunately the Company will have to continue with their already existing expensive plan offerings”

You again are NOT voting on Teamcare and that paragraph that you think is a boogeyman is nothing but bull chips. They don’t need you to vote on a paragraph to talk to the Company about trying to find more affordable medical plans.

In other words they don’t need your permission just to talk.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The wages raise the bar across the board for the entire industry. On a yearly basis you’re even pushing into Pilot 🧑‍✈️ territory which is something your groups have always said you deserve. On top of those raises you even keep that Golden Ticket 🎫 Industry look back.

Again I don’t know of anyone else who has that look back? 👏 to the IBT. Credit where credit is due and earned.

We deserve pilot pay??? - I've never said that, and if the ibt did then I clearly missed it. If you have a source cite it.

If you're so enamored with the reset language then come work under the teamsters - I never took issue with the language I merely pointed out that it is only as good as AAL & DAL make it - its not the be all/end all of our CBA.

Bonus? You’re not entitled or owed a bonus or retro. UAL is giving you a seamless deal. A Bonus or retro is usually only given because the Company owes you money for stalling your talks. In this case they’re bringing you up by almost 11% this year which about matches last years inflation and you’ll get 3% plus if anyone goes above you in the following years.

First, I never said anything about retro - Second, you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase - Why are we getting a seamless agreement? Because UAL is short MX and needs to attract and KEEP talent. We wont complete the vote til early April in all likelihood, August is only 4 months after that, simply asking for a DOS raise instead of AUG is an easy ask.

The kids don’t like the 8 years to TOS? Maybe they should talk to some Pilot groups that don’t top out until 11 years. They can push that if they want but good luck getting it lowered.

Your dismissive attitude is duly noted - unfortunately with all the hiring recently, UAL has a large number of MX with under 5 years ... and they do vote ... we'll see.

The Holiday move. Ok that sucks but I’m single and could live with it. I’m fortunate enough now with my money to not think on a paycheck to paycheck basis but a yearly basis now. Fruits of my labor nearing retirement. So I’d shrug my shoulders in the change.

Congrats on being single - Many here are not. With UAL's decimation of Base MX, the line now has a larger sway in voting ... we'll see.

Teamcare: Your Elephant in the room. It’s not there. It’s currently an imaginary animal.

Please tell me that you understand this?

It says “NOTHING” about Teamcare.

Read much?

While the language in article 16 doesn't mention Teamcare by name, they ibt has already given the game away with their update a few weeks ago ... its Teamcare they're after. To be clear, I'm not blaming our frontline negotiators on this one as I'm sure the directive came from on high.

The last update we have on Medical in Dec 2023 clearly states they are looking into TEAMCARE


Are you really that lost, or do you just simply refuse to connect the dots?


Your "opinion" is noted.

 

[WeAAsles]

We deserve pilot pay??? - I've never said that, and if the ibt did then I clearly missed it. If you have a source cite it.

If you're so enamored with the reset language then come work under the teamsters - I never took issue with the language I merely pointed out that it is only as good as AAL & DAL make it - its not the be all/end all of our CBA.




First, I never said anything about retro - Second, you don't get what you deserve you get what you negotiate, I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase - Why are we getting a seamless agreement? Because UAL is short MX and needs to attract and KEEP talent. We wont complete the vote til early April in all likelihood, August is only 4 months after that, simply asking for a DOS raise instead of AUG is an easy ask.





Your dismissive attitude is duly noted - unfortunately with all the hiring recently, UAL has a large number of MX with under 5 years ... and they do vote ... we'll see.




Congrats on being single - Many here are not. With UAL's decimation of Base MX, the line now has a larger sway in voting ... we'll see.






Read much?



The last update we have on Medical in Dec 2023 clearly states they are looking into TEAMCARE


Are you really that lost, or do you just simply refuse to connect the dots?


Your "opinion" is noted.

I said “your groups” I didn’t say you. I can’t tell you how many AMT’s I’ve heard say that not to mention many who used to be on this board who’ve now faded away.

It guarantees you don’t have to worry long about your competition surpassing you. Yes I am enamored by it.

Sure it’s an easy ask and I agree with all the rest you said. But if I didn’t have to wait 3 to 5 years or even worse 7 like AMFA did at SWA tell me where to sign. I don’t need to be crazy greedy or play Vegas betting for more.

Yea I’m dismissive. Because today’s generation wants it all yesterday. Sad thing it was our generation who instilled that in them. Maybe cause we busted our asses to give them too much? “Our Generation”

“Looking into” doesn’t mean you’re voting on it. At the moment with “THIS” deal you are NOT voting on it. I live in the present not the future.

Would they like to present it to you again? I’m sure they would. The more people they have in all those things the better the deals they can get and the lower the potential costs. Not to mention of course what some will make off those “Administrative Fees”

I grew up in NYC. Even had friends in the Mafia. So yea I know how it works. But how much are they getting for me so they can live high on the hog is how I think. And I don’t think you or I are exactly starving.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I said “your groups” I didn’t say you. I can’t tell you how many AMT’s I’ve heard say that not to mention many who used to be on this board who’ve now faded away.

I can tell you how many I've heard say that here at UAL ... Z-E-R-O

Oh we bad mouth pilots now and then to be sure, last minute crap write ups, gate calls, etc. Avionics guys claim that their computers fly the plane not the pilot. However I've never heard one of them claim we should be paid the same.

It guarantees you don’t have to worry long about your competition surpassing you. Yes I am enamored by it.

Fine - if you love it so much, get your tickets and come work under the teamsters.

Yea I’m dismissive. Because today’s generation wants it all yesterday. Sad thing it was our generation who instilled that in them. Maybe cause we busted our asses to give them too much? “Our Generation”

I have no idea how you come to that as far as this discussion goes - to be clear, I'm talking about Mechanics - Again, UAL's current time to top out is 8 years - the ask as I heard it was to reduce the TTTO back to 5 years - That is the benefit I began my career with, and was the standard at UAL til the teamsters negotiated it up to 8. So I will wholeheartedly disagree with you. Its not them wanting it all yesterday, its a completely fair ask.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

“Looking into” doesn’t mean you’re voting on it. At the moment with “THIS” deal you are NOT voting on it. I live in the present not the future.

Would they like to present it to you again? I’m sure they would. The more people they have in all those things the better the deals they can get and the lower the potential costs. Not to mention of course what some will make off those “Administrative Fees”

Do you realize that "Teamcare" is part of the Central States Health and Welfare Fund?

"... he Central States Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund was founded in 1950 and was one of the first non-profit labor health funds in the United States. Since 2014, the Fund has done business under the tradename TeamCare. ..."

Here is a link to their Board of Trustee's

https://myteamcare.org/about


Now here is a link to the Teamsters Central States Pension Plan and its Board of Trustee's

https://mycentralstatespension.org/about-your-fund


ALL 4 Teamcare UNION TRUSTEE'S are UNION TRUSTEE'S on Central States Pension Fund -and- 3 out of 4 Teamcare EMPLOYER TRUSTEE'S are EMPLOYER TRUSTEE'S on Central States Pension Fund

Central States Pension Fund is a train wreck thanks to teamsters misdealing, and a deal with UPS allowing them to pull out of the pension fund in exchange for card check neutrality on Overnight Freight which the teamsters were organizing at the time.

That deal crippled the already struggling pension plan. Members retiree's had their benefits cut drastically while the teamsters organized more dues payers.


I do not want the teamsters nor any part of their hierarchy near my medical or pension plans, so that means voting NO to what may seem like innocuous language, but is actually them trying to put a foot in the door.

NO THANK YOU!

 

[SWAMECH]

TSH, I see now how the teamsters are trying to "slip" in language to start the process of getting teamcare into the contract. Although article 16 at end of page 4 declares a vote would have to take place, DO NOT believe that at all when coming from the teamsters. Vote no until such and all language about teamcare is off the table, period. It will go unfunded just like the teamsters pensions are getting reduced (3 or 4 times so far) for retirees with no vote or say so from members.
Don't waste your time with the yahoo that keeps throwing BS at you. He is not a mech., and he is has no clue what you guys are really dealing with when it comes to the teamsters representation, and that is fact. As you already have seen he really has no real info about wha you guys are going thru currently.
Thx for the link to the info on the teamcare and the offer of an extension, I'll read it in depth later today.

 

[WeAAsles]

I can tell you how many I've heard say that here at UAL ... Z-E-R-O

Oh we bad mouth pilots now and then to be sure, last minute crap write ups, gate calls, etc. Avionics guys claim that their computers fly the plane not the pilot. However I've never heard one of them claim we should be paid the same.




Fine - if you love it so much, get your tickets and come work under the teamsters.




I have no idea how you come to that as far as this discussion goes - to be clear, I'm talking about Mechanics - Again, UAL's current time to top out is 8 years - the ask as I heard it was to reduce the TTTO back to 5 years - That is the benefit I began my career with, and was the standard at UAL til the teamsters negotiated it up to 8. So I will wholeheartedly disagree with you. Its not them wanting it all yesterday, its a completely fair ask.

They posted that here. And no I’m not going to try and find those comments. Personally I wouldn’t care if you were paid as much as Pilots. I don’t begrudge or look down on what anyone try’s to get paid if they can get it.

I investigated the idea when I hired on and decided against it. The idea of working overnight for 10 years just didn’t work for me at 30 years old. I made my life choice for work and am too close to that conclusion now to think about any more changes. But why can’t I admire the industry look back that you have?

Ok but at 8 years you’re already below the industry standard against most other groups including Pilots and Flight Attendants. Dipping that by 3 more years is a pretty big ask. If they vote no and that’s the reason why we’ll see what happens.

Don’t forget we do have our hands tied under the Railway Labor Act so don’t expect even being a Teamster that you’re going to be “allowed” to strike one of the Largest Airlines in America anytime soon. FA’s keep asking and being rejected. 🙅

 

[WeAAsles]

Do you realize that "Teamcare" is part of the Central States Health and Welfare Fund?

"... he Central States Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund was founded in 1950 and was one of the first non-profit labor health funds in the United States. Since 2014, the Fund has done business under the tradename TeamCare. ..."

Here is a link to their Board of Trustee's

https://myteamcare.org/about


Now here is a link to the Teamsters Central States Pension Plan and its Board of Trustee's

https://mycentralstatespension.org/about-your-fund


ALL 4 Teamcare UNION TRUSTEE'S are UNION TRUSTEE'S on Central States Pension Fund -and- 3 out of 4 Teamcare EMPLOYER TRUSTEE'S are EMPLOYER TRUSTEE'S on Central States Pension Fund

Central States Pension Fund is a train wreck thanks to teamsters misdealing, and a deal with UPS allowing them to pull out of the pension fund in exchange for card check neutrality on Overnight Freight which the teamsters were organizing at the time.

That deal crippled the already struggling pension plan. Members retiree's had their benefits cut drastically while the teamsters organized more dues payers.


I do not want the teamsters nor any part of their hierarchy near my medical or pension plans, so that means voting NO to what may seem like innocuous language, but is actually them trying to put a foot in the door.

NO THANK YOU!

That’s why I would do my Homework before the vote. Now yes I have followed the happenings of the Pension Fund and thankfully never had a part of something like that throughout my career. Lots of IAM guys pissed at the multiple cuts the IAMPF took also. Particularly the ones who wanted to retire before 65 and now can’t collect early.

So my DBPension was frozen. They replaced it with a 401K match so I no longer have an ongoing Pension. Thankfully with the merger we got some really good raises and our contribution/ match was increased so I’ve been able to make up the difference.

Now with the Medical. All I would care about is the cost and ease of access to providers. If Teamcare was something still affiliated with a large network provider like say United Healthcare and saved me say 10% in the costs I’m paying now, I’d have to consider it.

I’m going to think from a personal financial perspective. I really don’t care if some people are skimming off the top.

Hell do you really think I would give a rats ass if I was say a UPS Driver (High School Education) making over $130,000 per year?

To also be honest about an AMT. A long time ago those schools to get an A&P cost less than a max $10,000 investment. ($6,000 when I asked in 1995, Baker School) Now 20 plus years later you’re going to make roughly $150,000 a year.

So if as some people want to look at it that the Union Bosses are also dipping into that till, I’m absolutely fine with that. We gain together.

Very sorry for the Central States Union members though. But didn’t Biden just give them some type of bailout? Strong 💪 influence in that IBT mafia I guess.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

If Teamcare was something still affiliated with a large network provider like say United Healthcare and saved me say 10% in the costs I’m paying now, I’d have to consider it.

’m going to think from a personal financial perspective. I really don’t care if some people are skimming off the top.

You just don't get it - If the teamsters hierarchy was ok screwing over retiree's in Central States just to organize a few members, then why should I ever willingly give that same hierarchy ( who is also in control of Teamcare ) the ability to to pull a similar maneuver with my medical?

If this TA is ratified, come November 2024, the ibt could come out and say okay, Teamcare is lower cost by plan so lets vote and get it in open enrollment. If that TA passes Teamcare becomes our medical. Now facing 3 more years, til open negotiations, the teamsters decide to let another Non -UAL group leave Teamcare for whatever reason ( a decision we at UAL have absolutely NO SAY over ) and suddenly our prices jump up and next open enrollment we're screwed. Not only are we paying more, we're locked in til at least 2027, and even then theres no guarantee the ibt would ever entertain removing Teamcare language short of another card drive.

The teamsters are liars - You were front and center when the ibt ran interference for the TWU during the last AMFA drive - you could not have been blind to all of their organizing lies

At UAL they promised to force open our contract early ... they didn't

They promised in our first agreement TA that their superior language would stop blended MX work ... it didn't

They promised us a triple vesting pension (theres still videos of it on YouTube) 15 years of credit for 5 years of service ... didn't happen


Why should I ever trust the ibt when its clear they have a vested $$$ interest in gaining a Teamcare "YES" vote.

No thank you.

 

[SWAMECH]

You just don't get it - If the teamsters hierarchy was ok screwing over retiree's in Central States just to organize a few members, then why should I ever willingly give that same hierarchy ( who is also in control of Teamcare ) the ability to to pull a similar maneuver with my medical?

If this TA is ratified, come November 2024, the ibt could come out and say okay, Teamcare is lower cost by plan so lets vote and get it in open enrollment. If that TA passes Teamcare becomes our medical. Now facing 3 more years, til open negotiations, the teamsters decide to let another Non -UAL group leave Teamcare for whatever reason ( a decision we at UAL have absolutely NO SAY over ) and suddenly our prices jump up and next open enrollment we're screwed. Not only are we paying more, we're locked in til at least 2027, and even then theres no guarantee the ibt would ever entertain removing Teamcare language short of another card drive.

The teamsters are liars - You were front and center when the ibt ran interference for the TWU during the last AMFA drive - you could not have been blind to all of their organizing lies

At UAL they promised to force open our contract early ... they didn't

They promised in our first agreement TA that their superior language would stop blended MX work ... it didn't

They promised us a triple vesting pension (theres still videos of it on YouTube) 15 years of credit for 5 years of service ... didn't happen


Why should I ever trust the ibt when its clear they have a vested $$$ interest in gaining a Teamcare "YES" vote.

No thank you.

Well said and so true.
Do not allow teamsters control of medical as they have done with the retirees and future retirees with retirement in the teamsters pensions. Failures at everything.

 

[WeAAsles]

You just don't get it - If the teamsters hierarchy was ok screwing over retiree's in Central States just to organize a few members, then why should I ever willingly give that same hierarchy ( who is also in control of Teamcare ) the ability to to pull a similar maneuver with my medical?

If this TA is ratified, come November 2024, the ibt could come out and say okay, Teamcare is lower cost by plan so lets vote and get it in open enrollment. If that TA passes Teamcare becomes our medical. Now facing 3 more years, til open negotiations, the teamsters decide to let another Non -UAL group leave Teamcare for whatever reason ( a decision we at UAL have absolutely NO SAY over ) and suddenly our prices jump up and next open enrollment we're screwed. Not only are we paying more, we're locked in til at least 2027, and even then theres no guarantee the ibt would ever entertain removing Teamcare language short of another card drive.

The teamsters are liars - You were front and center when the ibt ran interference for the TWU during the last AMFA drive - you could not have been blind to all of their organizing lies

At UAL they promised to force open our contract early ... they didn't

They promised in our first agreement TA that their superior language would stop blended MX work ... it didn't

They promised us a triple vesting pension (theres still videos of it on YouTube) 15 years of credit for 5 years of service ... didn't happen


Why should I ever trust the ibt when its clear they have a vested $$$ interest in gaining a Teamcare "YES" vote.

No thank you.

I don’t vote with my emotions and I don’t vote on any what ifs. That’s all you’re giving me here.

Again this Teamcare is NOT NOT NOT in your deal. You are NOT voting on Teamcare.

So let’s say UAL (Yes UAL not the IBT) was offering to DOUBLE your pay. Would you still vote no for the same reason? Now that would be kind of crazy don’t you think?

If they doubled your pay you could afford to buy your own medical plans completely independent of whatever your Company was offering you.

I get it. You have a hatred for the IBT. But you don’t work for the IBT. You work for UAL. And what I’m seeing is UAL is putting a pretty good (financial) deal on the table for you to vote on.

I have between 4 and 6 years left to go till retirement. If my Company offered me a 10.68% raise this year I’d drop every dime of that into more retirement savings. I’m already putting in 30% so I’d go up to 40% and once I hit the 401K Max I’d invest elsewhere.

So you really want to wait longer for that? How old are you may I ask?

If you EVER vote for Teamcare it sounds to me from the TA that it would be a separate vote? Even though again they never mentioned Teamcare. Not in the TA. In an update yes, the TA no.

Again there is no Teamcare. You are voting on $$$$$$$. You vote no and you would be losing $$$$$$$. How long you might have to wait to gain more $$$$$$$ is the question. And could the winds of fortune on our economy change? Yes. Could you lose out waiting because you see Boogeymen in Closets? Yes.

BTW if you vote no you also screw AMT’s at AA, Delta and SWA since you “weirdly” refused to accept raising the bar.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hero.

I’m a guy who likes to try and do his Homework. So I’m trying to dig online for reviews against Teamcare. I’m not finding any bad reviews. Granted I’m also not finding tons of reviews at all. But what I am finding is genuinely positive.

I also read one of their fliers that stated they had half a million members. You do know that the more members you have the lower the deals they can negotiate to provide services.

UAL doesn’t have half a million employees so they couldn’t possibly offer you lower costs than Teamcare probably can.

Common sense.

https://teamsterspipeline.com/app/uploads/2018/11/TeamCare_Brochure.pdf