United Mechanics vote on new contract extensio

[ThirdSeatHero]

Every “Legacy Airline” Union lost work in the 2000’s with concessions and Bankruptcies. The question is what’s been gained back since?

A fair question - However, its worth noting, UAL was out of bankruptcy when the ibt took over, and they have still lost work ( the aforementioned SFO lines as an example) The lines they might secure now are not new work, they're merely replacements and unless they are heavy C and D chks, then its not even an equivalent replacement. ... "IF" they ever materialize.

SWA wasn’t a Legacy and never went Bankrupt. So how come AMFA couldn’t gain work that either the IBT lost or never had?

Last time I checked, SWA has never had an involuntary layoff, not even during the pandemic - SWAMECH please correct me if I'm wrong on this - further, AMFA's numbers today at SWA are larger than when they were certified on property, so there membership has grown.

Is the IBT doing good for your group? I guess that depends on how the voting goes? Same goes for the TWU, IAM and yes AMFA if that’s what their members wanted.

So you criticize AMFA for what their members ratified but fail to do so when the ibt membership does the same? For example, the ibt giving away all our Airbus heavy MX before they ever arrived on property - A350's on order and the A321's we just started receiving.

You asked above ...

So how come AMFA couldn’t gain work that either the IBT lost or never had?

Well it seems the ibt has done the same here at UAL, traded work for $$$ ... yet you condemn AMFA, but not the ibt.

 

[SWAMECH]

A fair question - However, its worth noting, UAL was out of bankruptcy when the ibt took over, and they have still lost work ( the aforementioned SFO lines as an example) The lines they might secure now are not new work, they're merely replacements and unless they are heavy C and D chks, then its not even an equivalent replacement. ... "IF" they ever materialize.



Last time I checked, SWA has never had an involuntary layoff, not even during the pandemic - SWAMECH please correct me if I'm wrong on this - further, AMFA's numbers today at SWA are larger than when they were certified on property, so there membership has grown.




So you criticize AMFA for what their members ratified but fail to do so when the ibt membership does the same? For example, the ibt giving away all our Airbus heavy MX before they ever arrived on property - A350's on order and the A321's we just started receiving.

You asked above ...



Well it seems the ibt has done the same here at UAL, traded work for $$$ ... yet you condemn AMFA, but not the ibt.

No correction needed. You are correct. SWA has NEVER had any involuntary layoffs, job cuts or positions eliminated, EVER. Not during or after 911, and not during or after the pandemic.
YES again on AMFA's headcount for Mechanics alone have more than doubled, if not tripled since they took over. And along with that they have tripled the amount of lines of maint in Dallas alone and soon to be doubling in Hou and other cities where all the new hangars went up. Back shops have all increased work along with all the added lines of maint as well. Yes AMFA has completely way out done the teamsters in bringing in work, protecting heads and work.
And as everyone knows, AMFA once again brought SWA to the top with their last contract extension in wages, 401K, retirement and QOL issues. AND they just did another new 5 year contract for Alaska's Mechanics with an ILC including wages and such, as we await the final details on that.
TSH; Anytime you have any questions, pls feel free to reach out. I quit reading the 3 yahoos postings as they are constant lies and made up BS about SWA and AMFA. They are so focused on trying to rid the industry of AMFA they will say anything no matter truthful or not. They are just tiered of being beat down by AMFA everywhere, and especially against all the industrial unions, as AMFA keeps "winning" if you will.
Hope you get the additional line of maint., just hope it's not at a huge cost of other concessions which is how the teamsters do it most of the time.
Oh yea, you hit the nail on the head about the extensions. When AMFA does one (with industry leading wages and all other areas) it's a sin, and AMFA can never nego a real contract, as they forget about our previous one with almost 7 years of full retro including an additional 2-4 million above full retro. But as soon as one of the industrial unions do an extension, it's a great thing. Now you see their true colors and why I, and all other mechanics, ignore their ignorance on these boards as they have no clue what they are talking about.
Good luck brother, and fill us in when you get the info please.

 

[D7571987]

The IBT update is out.

4% on Aug-2024
6.87% on Dec-2024
3% on Dec-2025
3% on Dec-2026
3% on Dec 2027

 

[D7571987]

So that would put a dayshift line mech at:

63.80 on Aug 2024
67.46 Dec 2024
69.17 Dec 2025
70.94 Dec 2026
72.76 Dec 2027

We also already get on top of this $1.20 hr for 40 hrs a week for what they call veba towards a health spending account or in paycheck per your choosing.

 

[WeAAsles]

A fair question - However, its worth noting, UAL was out of bankruptcy when the ibt took over, and they have still lost work ( the aforementioned SFO lines as an example) The lines they might secure now are not new work, they're merely replacements and unless they are heavy C and D chks, then its not even an equivalent replacement. ... "IF" they ever materialize.



Last time I checked, SWA has never had an involuntary layoff, not even during the pandemic - SWAMECH please correct me if I'm wrong on this - further, AMFA's numbers today at SWA are larger than when they were certified on property, so there membership has grown.




So you criticize AMFA for what their members ratified but fail to do so when the ibt membership does the same? For example, the ibt giving away all our Airbus heavy MX before they ever arrived on property - A350's on order and the A321's we just started receiving.

You asked above ...



Well it seems the ibt has done the same here at UAL, traded work for $$$ ... yet you condemn AMFA, but not the ibt.

SWA never had a layoff with the TWU represented Ramp either so what’s your point?

Oh C’mon they’ve grown? Give me a break. Why did they grow? They grew because the Airline has more planes and how much have they grown by? Enough people to fill a closet? And over again how many years? 20+

I’m not a big fan of the IBT in our Industry BTW. I like your language that you get a yearly look back though. That’s amazing and no one else has it. You can’t not give them credit for gaining that.

Ok fair is fair. The IBT also gave up work for money. But they still seem to be doing a hell of a lot better for you guys then AMFA is doing for anyone else out there. Compare your planes to total headcount against them at any Airline they represent and you tell me then.

 

[WeAAsles]

The IBT update is out.

4% on Aug-2024
6.87% on Dec-2024
3% on Dec-2025
3% on Dec-2026
3% on Dec 2027

Wow 10.87% in 2024. Makes up for inflation.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok Hero. What do you think?

https://teamsters781.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IBT-UA-TA-and-APP-A.pdf

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

SWA never had a layoff with the TWU represented Ramp either so what’s your point?

So this never happened?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/tra...-airlines-layoffs-phoenix-airport/3814311001/

I honestly thought they did, I only remember it because the SWA mechanics weren't mentioned ... if the TWU saved them, then good on them.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Oh C’mon they’ve grown? Give me a break. Why did they grow? They grew because the Airline has more planes and how much have they grown by? Enough people to fill a closet? And over again how many years? 20+

Compare your planes to total headcount against them at any Airline they represent and you tell me then.

Yes, they grew - period. It doesn't matter if it was by 1 or 10,000 - UAL has lost mechanic headcount, As has AAL - SWA has not.

Further, the metric you always try to fall back on is Plane/Mechanics which is severely flawed. The company controls the direction of their MX footprint the union doesn't. The union can only defend ( and should ) the work they have, but no union can force an airline to open a MX station where there was none before - the closest I've seen are the contingency clauses like we have that require UAL to staff full time line mechanics at stations where they exceed certain part time vendor MX hours ... and I've only ever heard of that being triggered once for a handful of GSE techs ... and I seriously doubt the ibt is even monitoring this presently.

I’m not a big fan of the IBT in our Industry BTW. I like your language that you get a yearly look back though. That’s amazing and no one else has it. You can’t not give them credit for gaining that.

The reset language is fine, but its only good if AAL and or DAL raise the bar first otherwise it does nothing.

Ok Hero. What do you think?

Let me ask you this first ... have you read everything in the two links in this update?

https://teamsterssfo.com/updates/2024/3/4/tentative-agreement

 

[WeAAsles]

So this never happened?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/tra...-airlines-layoffs-phoenix-airport/3814311001/

I honestly thought they did, I only remember it because the SWA mechanics weren't mentioned ... if the TWU saved them, then good on them.

No it did not happen. Voluntary leaves.

Southwest Airlines plans to hire 8,000 more workers in 2023

Dallas-based Southwest Airlines is planning to hire another 8,000 more employees in 2023 after hitting record staffing levels this year.

www.dallasnews.com

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, they grew - period. It doesn't matter if it was by 1 or 10,000 - UAL has lost mechanic headcount, As has AAL - SWA has not.

Further, the metric you always try to fall back on is Plane/Mechanics which is severely flawed. The company controls the direction of their MX footprint the union doesn't. The union can only defend ( and should ) the work they have, but no union can force an airline to open a MX station where there was none before - the closest I've seen are the contingency clauses like we have that require UAL to staff full time line mechanics at stations where they exceed certain part time vendor MX hours ... and I've only ever heard of that being triggered once for a handful of GSE techs ... and I seriously doubt the ibt is even monitoring this presently.




The reset language is fine, but its only good if AAL and or DAL raise the bar first otherwise it does nothing.




Let me ask you this first ... have you read everything in the two links in this update?

https://teamsterssfo.com/updates/2024/3/4/tentative-agreement

I’m done with the SWA questions since you’re biased for your dream Union.

I asked what you thought on the wages? It doesn’t appear to me to be any more than that basically? It looks as if the Company just extended your agreement pretty much as is?

I guess either way you’ll vote no because God forgive it looks like you give your IBT negotiators a thumbs up 👍

 

[WeAAsles]

Looking at this link it seems this is the full deal. These signed pages are what you will be voting on. Now I do see the “mention” of Article 16 but as you can see they’re not trying to put you into Teamcare again. Yes they said they will look for ways to lower costs but I’d like to think we all would want our Unions to do that no matter what Union we belong to.

So basically this is an economic extension.

My guess is your (Supply and demand) pricing power has risen pretty well. Not enough prospects becoming AMT’s. So UAL (smartly) is trying to get ahead of the pack against other Airlines by raising their bar earlier than they needed to contractually. Benefits fall to you.

Now I ask the question will AA be dumb and stonewall the upcoming talks for their AMT’s and risk having a much harder time finding workers?

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/IBT-UA-TA-and-APP-A.pdf

 

[SWAMECH]

I'll wait for a full release before any input. It does appear UAL members will leap frog us in 2027, as far as wages go, which is good for the industry as a whole. Still very curious about the small print.

 

[WeAAsles]

I'll wait for a full release before any input. It does appear UAL members will leap frog us in 2027, as far as wages go, which is good for the industry as a whole. Still very curious about the small print.

You’re an imbecile. There is no small print. They posted all the signed letters.

Another reason you’re an imbecile is because one group always leaps over the next. That’s called inflation. Not sure how long you’ve been alive but your slice of pizza also isn’t .25 cents any more.

Dimwit.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

No it did not happen. Voluntary leaves.

Then as I said, good on the TWU at SWA for protecting their members.

I’m done with the SWA questions since you’re biased for your dream Union.

More like you're done because your positions on AMFA's growth, even as small as you like to deride, is more than any of the unions at the legacies have been able to accomplish.

Oh and btw, you citing bias in anyone is laughable, your anti-bias is flagrant, as our recent exchange on the ibt allowing foreign outsourcing and your tepid response clearly illustrates.

I asked what you thought on the wages?

I have no issue with the amount of money as presented. I do take issue with the fact that this extension, which we were told was driven by the company, has NO money on signing - NO increase, NO bonus. That's a first for me - if the company approached the union for an extension then at a minimum there should be money date of signing.

Further, our reset language is in effect, with no ratification of this extension, our reset should pay out in December, without giving up a word of the CBA - Yes, it might equate to the close to 11% total we'd have on the year, but if the company wants it so bad, vote no, and tell them simple to put the first AUG raise on DOS.

I guess either way you’ll vote no because God forgive it looks like you give your IBT negotiators a thumbs up

Now I do see the “mention” of Article 16 but as you can see they’re not trying to put you into Teamcare again. Yes they said they will look for ways to lower costs but I’d like to think we all would want our Unions to do that no matter what Union we belong to.

Yes, I'm voting NO.

While the language in article 16 doesn't mention Teamcare by name, they ibt has already given the game away with their update a few weeks ago ... its Teamcare they're after. To be clear, I'm not blaming our frontline negotiators on this one as I'm sure the directive came from on high.

And again, to be clear, if that article 16 language was removed, I'd vote YES.

Ok Hero. What do you think?

When I first saw it, even though the medical made it a NO for me, I honestly thought it would probably pass. After talking with fellow techs the last 2 days, I'm not so sure.

There is no 1 issue that people are centered on -

- Some don't like the lack of $$$ at DOS

- Some don't like the holiday move change ( lots of line techs especially )

- Some ( like me ) don't like the thinly veiled Teamcare language

- ALL the recent new hires hate it because the union did nothing to shorten the time-to-topout - UAL is currently 8 years


I guess we'll see