United Mechanics vote on new contract extensio

[SWAMECH]

Out west here it's running about 1 in 5 voting "yes", but to your point you can't find anyone who will admit they voted for the ESOP yet that passed

Ok, thx for update. Yea we had the same thing on our last teamsters contract before AMFA took over, you couldn't find someone to admit they voted for it but it did barely pass in the end. Amazing how that works, huh?
Forward the results when you get them.

 

[D7571987]

I was told it is 77% no.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There's an update posted that it was rejected, but no numbers on the count yet.

 

[SWAMECH]

This sounds good to me gentlemen. I am almost certain it is mostly to do with the teamcare and other slid in language by the teamsters. I too hope it fails and back to the table.
Thanks for the update fellas and work HARD on getting the membership to force them to get it right...

 

[WeAAsles]

Back to the drawing board.

 

[WeAAsles]

I have to wonder if maybe you guys are a little crazy voting no? I’m not trying to be insulting but how much more do you want and do you really want to go into Section 6 and lose long term cumulative value?

Did you really vote no because there was no bonuses? Why would you think you’re entitled to any if you have no break in your Contract time?

I sincerely wish you all luck. 🍀

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/2024-02__United-MX-and-Related-Economic-highlights-3.7.pdf

 

[WeAAsles]

Was this an issue? And what was it before?

 

[WeAAsles]

Someone wrote this on my Facebook Group page.

“Money is part of it, of course, but UA wanted them to give these things up for a little more money.

1. PCLs-personal convenience leave. Currently unlimited, but UA wanted to limit it to 80 hrs for the year. They allow X amount per day per work area to just take off without pay. Or VTO in our language. An example. It's Wednesday night and your bathroom floods. You go into Workbrain and it's "green" and you just VTO/PCL it. You don't have to talk to mgt and ask. You don't have to call in sick now and you saved yourself an occurrence.
Let's not forget the OT PCLs generate. Graveyard PCLs their shift, signs up for OT and boom, no graveyard for them. 🤷🏼‍♀️

2. The new hires aren't covered with the same layoff protection. This is harder to explain, but basically it's just Acts of God are the only reason they can lay them off.

3. HOBAs-Holiday Before Or After. You can use your holiday the week before or after the holiday and the company can't tell you no.

4. Profit sharing is weak.

5. Pilot % increase is 40% for 4 years and they're offering them 20% for 4 years.

Also, you don't take the first offer given. Especially, when the company is doing well”

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

1. PCLs-personal convenience leave.

There are some minor issues in what the poster describes about our PCL system but the main thrust of the program is correct - he also mentions exactly why UAL wanted to curtail it ... Let's not forget the OT PCLs generate. ... apparently at smaller stations, mechs will take PCL and then come in later and work overtime that their absence generated.

While i personally don't really care about PCL, I understand why those who use it are - the company essentially created this problem with their staffing.

2. The new hires aren't covered with the same layoff protection.

No idea what they're talking about here - At UAL new hires have NO protections until they complete probation - After that, they are protected per our current CBA. BTW to whoever wrote it - Acts Of God, are Force Majuere, and under that new and old alike can be laid off.

3. HOBAs-Holiday Before Or After. You can use your holiday the week before or after the holiday and the company can't tell you no.

A bit off on this one - Holidays on RDO's can be moved immediately before or immediately after the holiday - ie; if you have Sat/Sun as your RDO, and a holiday falls on sat or sun, you can move the holiday to Friday or Monday or bank the 8 hours as DAT.

A-L-O-T of Line MX ( out here at least ) was hot about loosing this.

4. Profit sharing is weak.

While I haven't heard this particular one myself here out west, it makes me smile. Our Profit Sharing % used to be alot larger, and when the company came for the language a couple contracts back, myself and others warned people that UAL wouldn't ask for it back if they thought they wouldn't be making money in the future. The ibt put the reduction in one of our TA's and the membership approved it.

Self inflicted wound

5. Pilot % increase is 40% for 4 years and they're offering them 20% for 4 years.

Comparing pilot/mx money is a waste of time ... but I will ask for/take the pilots QOL items

I heard a few people mention this out here, not many though.




I suspect the union will poll us in the coming weeks as to which items are the biggest NO's - UAL wanted/proposed this extension, so I expect them to make at least 1 attempt to tweak it into a yes vote. Still waiting on the numbers to see if thats going to be a big or small tweak.

 

[WeAAsles]

There are some minor issues in what the poster describes about our PCL system but the main thrust of the program is correct - he also mentions exactly why UAL wanted to curtail it ... Let's not forget the OT PCLs generate. ... apparently at smaller stations, mechs will take PCL and then come in later and work overtime that their absence generated.

While i personally don't really care about PCL, I understand why those who use it are - the company essentially created this problem with their staffing.



No idea what they're talking about here - At UAL new hires have NO protections until they complete probation - After that, they are protected per our current CBA. BTW to whoever wrote it - Acts Of God, are Force Majuere, and under that new and old alike can be laid off.




A bit off on this one - Holidays on RDO's can be moved immediately before or immediately after the holiday - ie; if you have Sat/Sun as your RDO, and a holiday falls on sat or sun, you can move the holiday to Friday or Monday or bank the 8 hours as DAT.

A-L-O-T of Line MX ( out here at least ) was hot about loosing this.




While I haven't heard this particular one myself here out west, it makes me smile. Our Profit Sharing % used to be alot larger, and when the company came for the language a couple contracts back, myself and others warned people that UAL wouldn't ask for it back if they thought they wouldn't be making money in the future. The ibt put the reduction in one of our TA's and the membership approved it.

Self inflicted wound



Comparing pilot/mx money is a waste of time ... but I will ask for/take the pilots QOL items

I heard a few people mention this out here, not many though.




I suspect the union will poll us in the coming weeks as to which items are the biggest NO's - UAL wanted/proposed this extension, so I expect them to make at least 1 attempt to tweak it into a yes vote. Still waiting on the numbers to see if thats going to be a big or small tweak.

Well if it really was a 77% no vote that’s going to be a difficult tweak.

 

[D7571987]

The pcl issue is a problem for the company because they cant get anyone to work graveyard shift. Most of the guys on graves are on it because of no seniority and some of them try and PCL their whole graves work week and then pick up an overtime shift and or a one way trade on days or swings and never come in on graves. So even if they come up short they dont care because they just want to avoid graves. Company offers overtime tryng to get guys to come in on graves and usually only get a few takers so graves is short and the desired work doesnt get done.

Generation Z is not down with icky things like graveyard shift.

So the low seniority guys outnumber the old guys now so you see what happened on the vote.

I was ok with this deal because we still have the reset if american or delta got ahead of us, my theory was to take the bird in the hand, especially with plandemic 2.0 or other disaster on the way.

The holiday thing almost nobody cares. The high time guys dont care about the PCL change, its the low timers.

Some of the higher guys voted no and want more money, better 401k, etc.

 

[SWAMECH]

There are some minor issues in what the poster describes about our PCL system but the main thrust of the program is correct - he also mentions exactly why UAL wanted to curtail it ... Let's not forget the OT PCLs generate. ... apparently at smaller stations, mechs will take PCL and then come in later and work overtime that their absence generated.

While i personally don't really care about PCL, I understand why those who use it are - the company essentially created this problem with their staffing.



No idea what they're talking about here - At UAL new hires have NO protections until they complete probation - After that, they are protected per our current CBA. BTW to whoever wrote it - Acts Of God, are Force Majuere, and under that new and old alike can be laid off.




A bit off on this one - Holidays on RDO's can be moved immediately before or immediately after the holiday - ie; if you have Sat/Sun as your RDO, and a holiday falls on sat or sun, you can move the holiday to Friday or Monday or bank the 8 hours as DAT.

A-L-O-T of Line MX ( out here at least ) was hot about loosing this.




While I haven't heard this particular one myself here out west, it makes me smile. Our Profit Sharing % used to be alot larger, and when the company came for the language a couple contracts back, myself and others warned people that UAL wouldn't ask for it back if they thought they wouldn't be making money in the future. The ibt put the reduction in one of our TA's and the membership approved it.

Self inflicted wound



Comparing pilot/mx money is a waste of time ... but I will ask for/take the pilots QOL items

I heard a few people mention this out here, not many though.




I suspect the union will poll us in the coming weeks as to which items are the biggest NO's - UAL wanted/proposed this extension, so I expect them to make at least 1 attempt to tweak it into a yes vote. Still waiting on the numbers to see if thats going to be a big or small tweak.

"The ibt put the reduction in one of our TA's and the membership approved it.

Self inflicted wound"

TSH, this is exactly why I always mention to read the ENTIRE contract language "even" if they tell you nothing was changed. The ibt will lie to you to get language slipped in and by the membership over "behind closed door deals" made in order to get other items changed.
It's a regular movement and done in secrecy between ibt and co. Read all language in depth, rather they say changed or not changed. ibt is famous for doing this and one of the reasons they were fired over our Colorado nego's where they made several "behind close door deals".

 

[SWAMECH]

The pcl issue is a problem for the company because they cant get anyone to work graveyard shift. Most of the guys on graves are on it because of no seniority and some of them try and PCL their whole graves work week and then pick up an overtime shift and or a one way trade on days or swings and never come in on graves. So even if they come up short they dont care because they just want to avoid graves. Company offers overtime tryng to get guys to come in on graves and usually only get a few takers so graves is short and the desired work doesnt get done.

Generation Z is not down with icky things like graveyard shift.

So the low seniority guys outnumber the old guys now so you see what happened on the vote.

I was ok with this deal because we still have the reset if american or delta got ahead of us, my theory was to take the bird in the hand, especially with plandemic 2.0 or other disaster on the way.

The holiday thing almost nobody cares. The high time guys dont care about the PCL change, its the low timers.

Some of the higher guys voted no and want more money, better 401k, etc.

I hear you D757.
Gen Z here are already screaming that they don't deserve to be on graves with only 1-2 years in. Hell, they don't even want to work for that paycheck anymore, it's getting real bad lately.

I can see the old timers thoughts on pay and 401K. Co. will run the numbers to see if they will come out in the long run if they cough up some more money and add to both 401K and PS to offset the cost saving in the other issues with the time off and O/T being paid due to time off.
Depending on the amount of No voters % will determine the amount of tweaking that will need to be done to get'er done.
Look fwd to any updates.

 

[SWAMECH]

FYI and a heads up TSH and D757;

We have been informed that the union is looking into a me too clause we have with our 401K. It could very well end up moving our current 9.3% up to an even steven 10% full dollar for dollar match. Our Union just started looking into this so stand by for more info on that.

It does appear that they use SWA for the wage increases but not used as one of the comparative airlines for the industry adjustments, strange huh? That 68.66 will top SWA's top for year 2024 in Dec as we are at 68.18. I am in hopes you guys will also top us in every outgoing year as well as end of contract...

Forgot to add the updated info where they use SWA to compare for this year wages in Dec.;

• The extension is one that matches Southwest Airlines top of scale (TOS) this year and will extend for a term of forty-eight (48) months. The package is valued at $1 billion dollars in improvements over its life.
• During this year the extension provides a four percent increase in August and a 6.87 percent increase in December, followed by three percent increases each December until 2027. In December of this year a TOS Technician will receive $68.66 per hour.
• The bridge medical benefit will be extended to run through to 2028.
• There is an additional job protection enhancement that adds a permanent heavy-check line of mechanics, increasing the total from two to three.
• Finally, the reset calculation runs this December and every year thereafter.

 

[WeAAsles]

The pcl issue is a problem for the company because they cant get anyone to work graveyard shift. Most of the guys on graves are on it because of no seniority and some of them try and PCL their whole graves work week and then pick up an overtime shift and or a one way trade on days or swings and never come in on graves. So even if they come up short they dont care because they just want to avoid graves. Company offers overtime tryng to get guys to come in on graves and usually only get a few takers so graves is short and the desired work doesnt get done.

Generation Z is not down with icky things like graveyard shift.

So the low seniority guys outnumber the old guys now so you see what happened on the vote.

I was ok with this deal because we still have the reset if american or delta got ahead of us, my theory was to take the bird in the hand, especially with plandemic 2.0 or other disaster on the way.

The holiday thing almost nobody cares. The high time guys dont care about the PCL change, its the low timers.

Some of the higher guys voted no and want more money, better 401k, etc.

So in other words your voting was against your own and a group we all know too well just doesn’t understand or like to work. It’s an epidemic in this Country and it doesn’t help when there are Politicians looking for people to work even less.

This Group wants as much money as possible to be able to afford to only work a minimum where our generation wants as much money as possible to save for retirement so we can stop working period.