Unions vs. Executive Bonus

[Hopeful]

How about this argument for unions....NO PAY INEQUALITY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN.....

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Try thinking outside your box. The U.S. labor movement is a shill for the corporations. Ever wonder why we don't have general strikes like in Europe or Latin America? Because the unions were set up to keep any real unionism in check, and any radicals marginalized. So a UAW golf course is... well...par for the course. Pun intended.
The AFL-CIO has undermined labor unions in Latin America in the 1960's and 70's who went against U.S. imperialist interests.
AFLID

Might want to do better research ..."Norton".

When the West Coast Dockworkers went on Strike(the last time), the very second that the last PEB was exhausted(aka Taft/Hartley)...THEY..........W A L K E D !!
Thinking that they(the union) might change their minds, and come to work(so as to "work to Rule), the (Deleted by Moderator) management...locked down the ports from SAN to SEA.(What in GODS NAME those friggin' IDIOTS thought THAT would accomplish, I'll NEVER understand)

With EVERY west coast pier occupied with a ship, and many, many MORE just outside at anchorage, the stand off continued, that is................until the STENCH of ROTTING Perishables on board those ships was SO BAD, that the Management genius's CAVED IN, and ALL the UNION GUYS were FAT and HAPPY $$$$$$
(Everyone working/active BEFORE the strike,...Got EVERYTHING they struck for !)

MODERATOR NOTE: Changing the spelling of a profanity or using diacritical marks--#, @, &--in place of the vowels does not make a profanity or obscenity any less so. Please refrain from such usage. Thank you.


FYI

 

[The Goose]

... snip
Not having an artificial layer inserted between management and the front line encourages a lot of communication and participation in running and planning the business that just doesn't happen in the unionized workgroups.

Nobody will argue with you on that statement. However, Arpey and crew look at the front line people as trash that must be tolerated.

Management/worker relations has gotten bad since the whiz-kids took over and they've literally set back said relations by many years, not simply because of bonuses but because of their attitude towards us. I don't expect you to understand.

It's evident Delta places great value on their people and by doing so got the union they deserved - none.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

http://www.americanexeccheck.com/

The twu stirs the pot this year what the hell were they doing the past 3 years. They might as well take the bonuses it wont change a thing even if they do give them up

 

[Ed Norton]

Might want to do better research ..."Norton".

When the West Coast Dockworkers went on Strike(the last time), the very second that the last PEB was exhausted(aka Taft/Hartley)...THEY..........W A L K E D !!
Thinking that they(the union) might change their minds, and come to work(so as to "work to Rule), the management...locked down the ports from SAN to SEA.(What in GODS NAME those friggin' IDIOTS thought THAT would accomplish, I'll NEVER understand)

With EVERY west coast pier occupied with a ship, and many, many MORE just outside at anchorage, the stand off continued, that is................until the STENCH of ROTTING Perishables on board those ships was SO BAD, that the Management genius's CAVED IN, and ALL the UNION GUYS were FAT and HAPPY $$$$$$
(Everyone working/active BEFORE the strike,...Got EVERYTHING they struck for !)


FYI

The Long Shoremen may be an exception but I stand by my statement: The U.S. labor movement is a shill of the corporations. Where was the mighty AFL-CIO during the PAATCO strike? Where were they for the Eastern strike? What about the IAM scabbing at NWA? The most despicable of all working men is a scab. What the IAM did to AMFA goes beyond scabbing. What about the TWU holding job fairs to hire scabs at NWA?
Sadly, the Long Shoremen's glory days may be numbered:Lazaro Cardenas

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

Nothing but pettiness and ineffective PR from another union. The pilots have already tread this path, does TWU think the results will be any better for them?

And let's not forget that the TWU actually had an offer on the table and walked away from it, so they really have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Bob Owens]

Nothing but pettiness and ineffective PR from another union. The pilots have already tread this path, does TWU think the results will be any better for them?

And let's not forget that the TWU actually had an offer on the table and walked away from it, so they really have no one to blame but themselves.

Actually the company pulled it from the table. Check your facts.

 

[wcs]

And, to be fair, the TWU, APA, and APFA do their fair share in villifying management to their members, implying that they can't be trusted.

The Labor organizations don't have to villify management. They don't have to imply that they can't be trusted. Management has done a fine enough job of doing that on their own.
From the time that Carty misled the three groups about the special executive pension funds to
the "Share to Pain, Share the Gain" lie, management has done their own villification. These
public campaigns are just a reflection of the memberships feelings, even though Captain Hill may be a little on the heavy side.

Not having an artificial layer inserted between management and the front line encourages a lot of communication and participation in running and planning the business that just doesn't happen in the unionized workgroups.

The Aircraft Maintenance personnel went above and beyond in communicating and participating with the company. It resulted in tens of millions of dollars in cost reductions and hundreds of millions in revenue. And that was outside of the wage and benefit reductions they sacrificed to prevent a bankruptcy in '03. What did they get for their efforts? A pittance of so-called AIP bonuses and a one time mercy offering from the board of directors last year that totaled under $600 after taxes. Meanwhile the upper levels increased their compensation by untold multiples.
So much for a problem with layers

 

[wcs]

Nothing but pettiness and ineffective PR from another union. The pilots have already tread this path, does TWU think the results will be any better for them?

I'll rephrase my question for you from another thread from a couple of weeks ago;
What should they do? Nearly three years of negotiations and still just delays from the company.
Sure, the company made a low-ball opening offer to the TWU and quickly pulled it when it wasn't received with choruses of "Halleluiah".
There's nothing in the TWU execcheck campaign that's not true.
How can Labor obtain better results? Should they just sit at the table for another three years being met by a panel of blank stares? Or should they be "happy" employees with their current situation, while management receives another round of bonuses to reward them and help retain their service? That should be the definition of ineffective HR!

 

[Hackman]

Nothing but pettiness and ineffective PR from another union. The pilots have already tread this path, does TWU think the results will be any better for them?

And let's not forget that the TWU actually had an offer on the table and walked away from it, so they really have no one to blame but themselves.

So like AIG management, you think it's ok for the AA executives to reward themselves with 6 years of bonuses when the AA business model has nearly failed and the employees had to save the company from bankruptcy? You still have those Bernie Madoff investments?

Do you know what was in the twu offer from Centerpork? Go ahead an give the specifics you have why blame should layed on the twu for not snapping up this fully concessional offer. FYI, they compAAny resinded the offer, but I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[Hopeful]

If anyone is interested in fiction, visit the AA NegotiAAtions website and hear the company's slant on how generous their offer is to all unions in mediation. They conveniently omit their demand that line stations now use unlicensed mechanics.
they are running the typical PR campaign from the same stale old playbook.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

So like AIG management, you think it's ok for the AA executives to reward themselves with 6 years of bonuses when the AA business model has nearly failed and the employees had to save the company from bankruptcy? You still have those Bernie Madoff investments?

Do you know what was in the twu offer from Centerpork? Go ahead an give the specifics you have why blame should layed on the twu for not snapping up this fully concessional offer. FYI, they compAAny resinded the offer, but I'm sure you already knew that.

The comparison to AIG is inaccurate and misleading. The AIG execs failed to properly oversee some traders whose bad calls brought the global economy to its knees. AMR's execs guided the company away from the bankruptcy precipice, protecting shareholders, employee retirements, etc. (And you can talk all about how it was the employees who saved the company from bk- and it was very much your sacrifice too- but the managers did their management thing, essential to the process).

The AA business model hasn't failed, the legacy airline business model (with high employee costs) has. It's been supplanted by low-cost rivals like JetBlue and Virgin America. Want to go work there for $9 an hour and no pension?

I'll check my facts on the offer; I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong about something. I recall there were two instances of an offer on the table to TWU, and on at least one of those occasions TWU said "no thanks" and voted not to bring it to the membership.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

AMR's execs guided the company away from the bankruptcy precipice, protecting shareholders, employee retirements, etc. (And you can talk all about how it was the employees who saved the company from bk- and it was very much your sacrifice too- but the managers did their management thing, essential to the process).

AA management guided the company to the brink of bankruptcy and then fleeced its employees to avoid the chapter 11 filing. You can sugar coat it all you want but the fact remains our management team is worthless or we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. Can you be more specific on exactly what management thing they did to avoid the CH 11 process. It wasnt the more room throughout coach, or the purchase of TWA that saved us?????

Get a grip
:down:

 

[Hackman]

The comparison to AIG is inaccurate and misleading. The AIG execs failed to properly oversee some traders whose bad calls brought the global economy to its knees. AMR's execs guided the company away from the bankruptcy precipice, protecting shareholders, employee retirements, etc. (And you can talk all about how it was the employees who saved the company from bk- and it was very much your sacrifice too- but the managers did their management thing, essential to the process).

The AA business model hasn't failed, the legacy airline business model (with high employee costs) has. It's been supplanted by low-cost rivals like JetBlue and Virgin America. Want to go work there for $9 an hour and no pension?

I'll check my facts on the offer; I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong about something. I recall there were two instances of an offer on the table to TWU, and on at least one of those occasions TWU said "no thanks" and voted not to bring it to the membership.

Inaccurate and misleading? Not by a long shot. I don't care who was at fault at AIG, and also the AIG debacle did not bring the global ecomomy to it's knees....are you that misinformed? The resession/depression started with Freddie Mae and Fanny Mac and the housing crisis. The simple fact is AIG was bailed out by the tax payers, and AMR was bailed out by the front line employees. NOW GET THIS MINION: NEITHER ONE OF THESE CORPORATIONS SHOULD BE PAYING ANY TYPE OF MANAGEMENT BONUS UNTIL THEY ARE SOLVENT AND ARE NOT ASKING FOR HAND OUTS TO COVER THEIR FAILED BUSNIESS PLAN!!!!

As TFC mentioned, AMR management made major errors that caused the near bankruptcy, not high employee costs as you foolishly suggest. Yeah, they did their "management thing", and ROYALY ------- UP!!!

Do us a favor, stop checking your facts. Maybe you'll come off as somebody who hasn't ridden the short bus most of your life.

 

[Hopeful]

They raped us and exempted themselves from the pain.