AA/ONEWORLD Alliance One step closer

[PHL]

Everyone knows why Branson opposes the deal - as stronger competitors threaten his empire. He has a long history of hating BA. And AA. He's a crazy megalomaniac.

Have you read his autobiography "Losing My Virginity"?? Do you know how many underhanded tricks and stunts BA has pulled over the years to keep his airline from growing? Megalomaniac might be strong. Visionary is more apt, which is not what I can say about BA or AA who are reactionary.....

He has every right to oppose ATI if it will stifle his ability to fairly compete. BA/AA would do the same thing if he were to team up with UA/CO/*A.

 

[eolesen]

Sorry that Sir Dick thinks he's been the target of "underhanded" tricks/stunts, but don't fall for his act. Just look at what they've gotten away with on reporting to the DOT and skirting of foreign ownership laws with Virgin America, and let's not forget that his former head of Virgin Express was none other than Jonathan Ornstein, well known for his fair business practices and sound ethics...

I think the unionista's fears on cabotage are unfounded. Economies of scale don't just apply to US based companies, and if Qantas and BA are each flying a frequency or two in a given domestic market, they're not likely to grab a whole lot of market share by doing so.

If anything, cabotage stands to create jobs for people on the ground working the extra flights...

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I don't think anyone is talking about granting intra-US cabotage rights to foreign carriers. (Although frankly I wish this would happen; might up the service level on the US-based airlines a bit).

I also agree with the others who have said this will lead to international growth, and hence more pilot jobs. The pilots are using limited resources to vocally oppose something that could actually benefit them. Ironic and foolish.

 

[Mach85ER]

I don't think anyone is talking about granting intra-US cabotage rights to foreign carriers. (Although frankly I wish this would happen; might up the service level on the US-based airlines a bit).

I also agree with the others who have said this will lead to international growth, and hence more pilot jobs. The pilots are using limited resources to vocally oppose something that could actually benefit them. Ironic and foolish.

You want cabotage? Not me. Enjoy yourself on one of AA's Oneworld 767-300 flights while the FO is making under $24,000 a year. See if he stays awake after getting his minimum rest after flying all night into the US, then off to DFW without a union contract. Me? I'll stay at the gate. FAR's? Sure they have them. except they get waivers. Ask around which Oneworld partner got a waiver that lets them use only 2 pilots vs the 3 needed for AA's.

There are "Colgan's" flying big airplanes too.

 

[FWAAA]

I haven't read Branson's autobiography, because I'm not a Branson Fan. That said, I tend not to read autobiographies written by anyone, because I generally couldn't care less what someone thinks of themselves; I usually want to read biographies written by others.

Branson the Liar is at it again in his last ditch attempt to derail the AA/BA/IB/AY/RJ ATI agreement, calling it a merger between AA and BA:

"If the proposed merger between BA and American Airlines is allowed to go ahead, then the result for passengers, employees, communities and for fair and healthy competition, would be disastrous," Branson said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/AIRLIN/idUSN1448159620090514

Asked about the impact of the deal on his own airline if it wins regulatory approval, Branson said: "I cannot guarantee Virgin Atlantic's survival if BA and AA are allowed to merge."

"It would be very, very difficult," he added.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/artic...1yea9_nHQpnGzjw

Wouldn't that be a crying shame. Don't get my hopes up, Sir Branson.

Mach85ER, this has nothing to do with cabotage. It has nothing to do with outsourcing and it has nothing to do with nonunion crews from the third world replacing you and your professional colleagues.

It has everything to do with giving AA and BA the exact same rights as held by NW and KLM for over 15 years now. And the same rights now enjoyed by DL and AF, soon to be DL, KLM and AF.

And not only that, but to give AA and BA exactly the same rights as currently held by UA and LH plus their newest partner, CO.

As I've posted before, it boggles the mind that anyone employed by AA would want AA's competitors to enjoy antitrust immunity but would oppose AA obtaining the same benefits.

But nevertheless, the APA spent $260,000 on lobbying the feds over the last six months, on various issues, including the ATI proposal:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/American-pil...46689.html?.v=1

 

[The Goose]

snip ...
But nevertheless, the APA spent $260,000 on lobbying the feds over the last six months, on various issues, including the ATI proposal:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/American-pil...46689.html?.v=1

Regardless of whether or not the pilots have a legitimate complaint, $260k in bribes will barely get one inside a politician's office, let alone being allowed to stay long enough explaining one's side of an issue. I believe we're all confident AMR upped the ante considerably over the piddling amount the APA waved around.

I'm beginning to believe AMR isn't worth arguing over anymore. The economy will eventually come back and it'll be time to find a position where people are actually thought of as assets rather than liabilities. Unfortunately, that will only last as long as the good times - we all have to remember there are bonuses to be paid and the proles will be the first to go to maintain the status quo.

 

[eolesen]

There are "Colgan's" flying big airplanes too.

If you're so damn concerned about the Colgan's of the world, what is your union's position on the idiots within your own ranks who willingly commute 4 to 6 hours before getting into the cockpit for an overnighter?...

 

[777 fixer]

Have you read his autobiography "Losing My Virginity"?? Do you know how many underhanded tricks and stunts BA has pulled over the years to keep his airline from growing? Megalomaniac might be strong. Visionary is more apt, which is not what I can say about BA or AA who are reactionary.....

He has every right to oppose ATI if it will stifle his ability to fairly compete. BA/AA would do the same thing if he were to team up with UA/CO/*A.

A visionary when it comes to the record business, yes. A visionary in regards to the airline business, that’s a bit harder to swallow.

If I remember correctly the original idea wasn't even his. So what you have is a billionaire who has a lot of money to sink into an airline. He eventually sold his stake in Virgin Records which meant he had even more money to dump into the airline. To top it off Virgin Atlantic is 49% owned by Singapore Airlines. Hardly an underdog.

 

[777 fixer]

I haven't read Branson's autobiography, because I'm not a Branson Fan. That said, I tend not to read autobiographies written by anyone, because I generally couldn't care less what someone thinks of themselves; I usually want to read biographies written by others.

Bios on people who are still alive tend to be either fluff pieces or hit pieces. IMO a bio can only be objective when the person has long since passed on.

 

[Mach85ER]

If you're so damn concerned about the Colgan's of the world, what is your union's position on the idiots within your own ranks who willingly commute 4 to 6 hours before getting into the cockpit for an overnighter?...

The position is that you come to work rested. They've stated as such many times. Same position as mine. It all depends on the commute too. I live at base yet have stared at the ceiling trying to get daytime "rest" with dogs barking, phones ringing, leaf blowers screaming, thunderstorms blasting and endured a 3 hour drive in that takes usually 1. Meanwhile the other guy dozes for 3 hours on a commuter flight.

Depends how many days a month someone works too, including the commute. I'm not riding with in back with some other carrier that runs their pilots 20 days a month for crap pay month after month. We also have mechanisms that are utilized to deal with performance problems.

Back to the issue. If the what they had planned is similar to NWA/KLM and DAL/AF and their track record is a win/win for all, fine with me, however, trust is a difficult thing to get back after it's lost. That's the reason for the problems between the company and the pilot group.

 

[FWAAA]

Regardless of whether or not the pilots have a legitimate complaint, $260k in bribes will barely get one inside a politician's office, let alone being allowed to stay long enough explaining one's side of an issue. I believe we're all confident AMR upped the ante considerably over the piddling amount the APA waved around.

Yep, AA spent $1.5 million in the first quarter, and the same amount in the third and fourth quarters of last year:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/American-Air...48874.html?.v=1

 

[eolesen]

I have to say though, the experience was nothing to write home about. The service was, in no way, superior to what American has to offer.

There's the kicker. I just flew one of the Virgin brands this week in business class, and the while service was good, it was still nowhere near what I'm used to on QF, BA, or AA.

Maybe that's what has Branson scared -- good service doesn't matter when you have regulatory protections..... without them, they actually have to deliver what they're advertising...

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

There's the kicker. I just flew one of the Virgin brands this week in business class, and the while service was good, it was still nowhere near what I'm used to on QF, BA, or AA.

Maybe that's what has Branson scared -- good service doesn't matter when you have regulatory protections..... without them, they actually have to deliver what they're advertising...

In addition to regulatory protections, Virgin enjoys awesome marketing/advertising power of the Virgin brand as well as the Branson personality. While in reality Virgin Atlantic may be on par with BA or AA, their ads certainly sell it as the greatest product in aviation, ever!

 

[Hopeful]

In addition to regulatory protections, Virgin enjoys awesome marketing/advertising power of the Virgin brand as well as the Branson personality. While in reality Virgin Atlantic may be on par with BA or AA, their ads certainly sell it as the greatest product in aviation, ever!

Good, go fly them.

 

[eolesen]

Good, go fly them.

Well, a few of my friends in LAX, SFO, and JFK have been doing just that -- they couldn't deal with Jetblue's all-coach product, but are now abandoning AA and UA on the transcons in favor of Virgin America's business class and main cabin select. Double and triple miles on the legacies aren't worth it to them.

They've got a decent product at a reasonable price. So do Virgin Blue, Virgin Atlantic, and V-Australia.

If they keep their costs in line with what they're charging, and can get the service levels up a notch or two (which is bound to happen as they gain experience). these guys could wind up giving one or two of the legacy carriers a run for the money.